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16) xtian distortions from Arutz Sheva special forum

 I am accepting your invitation to write you in private in your lastest entry in “Torah Spirituality to the Nations” forum. I am DavidNavi, just for your records.
 
It is very apparent you are very zealous for the Torah and for Judaism, and I can understand that. You must feel like Yirmiyahu when he said (in 20:9), “…[His word] would be like a burning fire in my heart, stored in my bones, and though I might struggle to contain it, I could not.” The zeal you have burst out of you with such passion you think the only way to communicate is by yelling. But doesn’t Mishlei (Proverbs) say in 25:15, “By forebearance a ruler is mollified, and a soft tongue breaks strong anger.”? Then doesn’t the author of Mishlei go on to say in verses 21-22 of the same chapter, “If your foe is hungry, feed him bread; and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink, for you will be scooping coals [to heap] on his head, and HaShem will reward you.”? The footnote in the Stone Edition of the Tanakh to verses 21 & 22 states, “If you are good to your enemy, he will be ashamed of his behavior toward you.” Aren’t we to bear the Torah to the Goyim as a light declaring the Greatness of HaShem? And then they will in turn come to us and beg us to teach them of our G-d, as prophesied by Z’Charyah?
 
Is, or should the Torah the be welded as a club in our hands that drives the Nations away from Hashem? Or rather should it be a beacon beckoning them to come?
 
Didn’t Yonah have the same problem when he was sent to the wicked city of Nineveh? Yonah states in 4:2, “…for I knew that You are a gracious and merciful G-d, slow to anger, abundant in kindness, and relent from doing harm.” HaShem answered in 4:11, “And I — shall I not take pity upon Nineveh teh great city, in wich there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand persons who do not know their right hand from their left…?” HaShem was merciful to Nineveh and showed mercy to one of the most wicked cities of its time, because they repented at the word given through Yonah.
 
Also, doesn’t Vayikra state, “You shall not take revenge and you shall not bear a grudge against the members of your people; you shall love your fellow as yourself — I am HaShem.” (19:18) Stone footnote, “R’ Akiva sid that this is the fundamental rule of Torah (Rashi; Sifra). Hillel paraphrased: ‘What is hateful to you, do not do to others’ (Shabbos 31a). We must wish upon others the same degree of success and properity we wish upon ourselves and we must treat others with the utmost respect and consideration (Ramban).” How do you feel when others yell at you? Is it comforting? Or does it stir up anger? Aren’t we to treat others, even the Goyim with respect, or are Akiva, Hillel and Ramban all incorrect?
 
Not only are we to bear Torah to the Nations, but we are to be living examples of the very character of HaShem. Is HaShem harsh, and angry – yes, at times – but isn’t He more often “merciful, slow to anger” and “abundant in kindness”?
 
When you post on “Torah Spirituality to the Nations” remember where you might be if it weren’t for the chesed of HaShem when He made you a Jew. Slow down when you type your messages of wisdom for us. In your zeal you type so fast it is often difficult to read your posts; the words run together and there are many misspellings. Let us see the light of HaShem and His Torah shining forth as you share the wisdom, and zeal He has given you. And most importantly, make sure you reply to the correct thread.
 
I honor you and ask that HaShem shine upon you and grant you peace, as we pray every Shabbat.
 
L’Shalom,

(ABOVE MODERATOR CAN BE SEEN IN ‘ARUTZ SHEVA’ CLICK TO GET THERE FORUM)

 

PLEASE  ’COMMENT’  BELOW  OR SEND AN eMAIL TO: jewswithviews@gmail.com

BUT FOR NOW A SIMPLE ANSWER FROM ME THE BLOGGER ‘DAVID’ AKA DACON9:

  • WE JEWS GAVE WISDOM PROPHESY AND WEALTH TO EGYPT,THEY GAVE US SLAVERY.
  • WE GAVE WISDOM, WEALTH AND EDUCATION TO SPAIN THEY CONVERTED OR KILLED US
  • WE GAVE SOPHISTICATION WEALTH INTELLECT TO GERMANY THEY DESCIMATED US.
  • WE GAVE BREAD WATER MONEY AND JOBS TO GAZA ARABS AND THEY GAVE US DEATH.

NOW MY ”ZEAL”IS BEING PAINTED AS HATEFUL AND REVENGING . that is exactly what  WEAKENS THE RESOLVE OF JEWS TO TAKE THE STAND AT THE MOUNTAIN TOP, EVEN THOUGH THE MAIN ISSUE WAS REACHING OUT  TO GOYIM AND DISTORTED QUOTES TO JEWS in that forum AND WHY IS THAT BEING ALLOWED, ,,INSTEAD I RECEIVE ONE SIDED QUOTES FROM THE LEFT SIDE OF  THE BOOK, NOT GLANCING OVER TO THE PAGE ON THE RIGHT.

THE WORLD LOVES A WINNER AND INSTEAD WE CRINGE IN FEAR OF OFFENDING THE OFFENDERS, NAMELY IN THIS DISCUSSION, THE XTIANS ,MESSIANICS AND DISTORTED JEWS. We are GDs special people, arent we? Whats the problem? I owe nothing to nobody except cordiality.They owe  JEWS and until you let it be known they will continue to step on us.I did not say be rude or disrespectful. I said to be BOLD AND DARING. My business lunches with goyeem are held only in glatt kosher resturants. Even with arabs.They ask ME questions about OUR bright lights and I  tell ‘em ! we are a special nation that received from G’D DIRECTLY,  THE LAWS OF LIFE’

SOPHISTICATION IS THE ROOT OF DESTRUCTION FOR JUDAISM  IN THIS WORLD. THE GERMAN JEWS WERE THE MOST SOPHICTICATED OF ALL JEWS. ITS TIME JEWS SHOUTED FROM THE TOPS OF MOUNTAINS,ITS TIME WE SPEAK  NOT ONLY SPEAK UP, BUT SPEAK OUT. ITS THAT TIME NOW. JUDAISM IS BEING ATTACKED FROM EVERY ANGLE ALL OVER THE WORLD. NOW IS THE TIME TO SHOUT..”YOU ARE WRONG” ,”THIS IS THE WAY AND THE ONLY WAY”. ” ITS TIME” ..WE ARE NOW BEING   TESTED FROM ABOVE, DO WE SPEAK IN DEFENCE OF TORAH???. THE BLURRING OF SEPARATIONS AND OF REACHING OUT IS A WASTE OF TIME. WHY ARE WE REACHING OUT AND NOT REACHING IN?  WHE ARE WE LOSING JEWS  WHILE YOU  ARE REACHING OUT TO STRANGERS  TO VALIDATE OR SHOW HOW KIND WE ARE.

ITS OUR TIME TO SHOUT . THIS IS IT ! WE ARE SEPARATE AND NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR CHURCHES AND WAYS. TORAH SAID WE WILL BE FEW AND YOU WANT TO GO AGAINST TORAH BY BRINGING IN QUANTITY. TORAH SAID WE ARE QUALITY NOT QUANTITY

We Jews become the weaker ones by allowing these infiltrators into our homes and lives and shuls. We jews through the associations with excuses of ‘a jew is a jew is a jew’ ARE THE WEAKER. YES ONLY IN HEAVEN , BUT DOWN HERE A JEW IS A JEW *ONLY  BY ACCEPTING,MAYBE  NOT ALWAYS PRACTICING BUT ACCPETING THE TORAH, *UNTOUCHED UNALTERED…  THE OTHER jews are no longer jews here, DEVAREEM DEUT SAYS WE SHOULD SEND THE WISEST OF OUR COMMUNITY TO HELP.**IF POSSIBLE TO HELP THEM**.

We  ’civilians’ MUST TURN INSIDE   OUR NATION TO EDUCATE OUR REMAINING JEWS IF THEY WANT TO  RECEIVE THE HONORS OF A JEW.  THE DOORS ARE OPEN WHEN THOSE WHO STEPPED AWAY WANT TO COME BACK .TELL THEM ” COME TO A CLASS  WITH ME AND YOU WILL SEE”. ”LETS TALK TO MY RABBI”,  Reach out to non jews? WHY ? if they come to you and ask its permissable, other then that,,,why? You reach out to a non jew and lose 10 born jews by neglect…JEWS do not proslytize.

ITS TIME WE MAKE A STANCE. A JEW IS NOT A JEW IS NOT A JEW when they deny Torah…. AND A XTIAN IS NOT RELATED IN ANY WAY TO JUDAISM. WE ARE SEPARATE. PERIOD. JEWS ARE NOT UNDER ROMAN RULE ANYMORE THAT WE OWE ANYTHING TO NON JEWS

AND I WILL NOT ATTEMPT TO VALIDATE MY JUDAISM OR COMPARE OR REACH OUT TO BE KIND. I WILL NOT REACH OUT TO BE CRUEL.I WILL MAKE THE LINE OF SEPARATION CLEARLY THOUGH.

I WILL BE CORDIAL WITH THE FENCE BETWEEN US. I SHAKE THEIR HAND THEN WALK IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION. THEIR CHOICE IS TO  FOLLOW ME  OR NOT.WHEN THEY FOLLOW ME THEY EITHER LISTEN OR  I  WALK  AWAY.  YES WE ARE THE LIGHT ,,,UNTO ”OURSELFS” FIRST !. WHEN WE SHINE BRIGHT, THEY… WILL ”FEEL’ OUR BRIGHTNESS AND ASK, THE SAME WAY THEY ASKED ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD AT THE GIVING OF TORAH. ”WHATS GOIN ON?’  THE ANSWER WAS AND IS  ”THE JEWS ARE RECEIVING THE LAWS.

”TODAY GOYIM SHOULD  BE SAYING,,THE JEWS HAVE THE LAWS

THE NON JEWS WILL SAY: ”THE JEWS ARE THE LIGHT,SEE HOW BRIGHT HE IS SHINING,,,I AM GOING TO ZION WITH THE NATION OF ISRAEL, DO YOU WANT TO GO WITH ME? PUT DOWN YOUR CROSSES AND IDOLS , I WANT TO BE WITH THE ONE TRUE G’D OF ISRAEL.

THE GOYEEM WILL NOT SAY IT UNTIL WE BELIEVE IT OURSELFS.

SOPHISTICATION DESTROYED US. NEVER AGAIN. NOW WE SHOUT LOUD AND CLEAR. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY, HEAR ME NOW LOVERS OF ZION.

IT IS FORBIDDEN FOR A JEW TO HEAR ANY TORAH FROM A NON JEW.

ALL COMMENTS WELCOMED            

THIS MODERATOR REBUKING ME IS **NOT  A JEW** BUT A EVANGELIST XTIAN THAT RECENTLY WENT THROUGH A IMPROVED XTIAN STATUS CALLING HIMSELF A ”REFORM CONVERT”.
THE OTHER MODERATOR IN AUTZ SHEVA AS WELL IS NOT A JEW OR A LOST JEW. BELIEVE ME I AM SO CONFUSED FROM THESE NEW TYPES OF PEOPLE AND LABELS,   AND HE ALSO REBUKED ME FOR SHOUTING OUT ””’I AM A JEW”’ AND NO XTIAN IS GONNA TELL ME NOTHING”” WHY DO I HAVE TO BE KIND TO MY PURSUER OF MY SOUL.
BECAUSE YOU CANT SEE WHAT I SEE OR LEARNED FROM EXPERIENCE DOES NOT IN ANY WAY NEGATE MY  OBSERVATION AND OPINION AND WARNNG TO OTHER JEWS TO STAY AWAY FROOM THIS KIND OF …__?.
MOST OF THE TIMES YOU  WILL FIND,,  THEY ARE  THE  MARRIED TO A XTIAN OR ARE STILL  XTINAS  AND SOMEWHERE, ARE ONE TO MANY SKELATONS THAT THEY FELT IT NESSASARY TO **REBUKE** A JEW WHO IS SPIRITUALLY CONNECTED TO THE HEAVENS AND THE XTIANS ARE JEALOUS AND ENVIOUS THAT THEIR FOREFATHERS REJECTED THE TORAH WHEN  THE ONE G’D OF ISRAEL OFFERED IT TO  THEM…YES OFFERED IT TO THE XTIANS MISTERING ANGELS , A LITTLE DEEPER LESSON FOR SOME OF YOU.
I DONT BUY  THE NOAHIDE MOVEMENT WITHOUT A RABBI. WHEN THEY EMAIL ME INFORMING THAT THEY ARE NOACHIDE, USING LOVE AND UNDERSTANDING FOR “”MY”” IGNORANCE.  I ASK A FEW QUESTIONS , THEYEND UP BEING DECEITFUL XTIAN LIARS, MISSIONARIES TRYING NEW TACTICS TO PROSYLTIZE.

ONE MISSIONARY AFTER MAYBE 20 BACK AND FORTH EMAILS TOLD ME  THAT  (”BARUCH HASHEM) ‘YOU ARE MUST HARDER THEN I THOUGHT YOU WOULD BE”.  THAT ONE  MISSIONARY FROM MY POSTINGS IN THE NEWS WEBSITES..

STRANGE THOUGH BEING ARUTZ SHEVA IS SO RIGHT WING. I THINK THEY ARE CAUGHT UP IN THEMSELFS OVER THE NOAHIDE MOVMENT NEGLECTING THE *TORAH MOVEMENT THAT MOSES LEFT US 3300 YRS AGO*

 

FROM ELISHEVA WHO ALSO IS SO UPSET : Her Comment:
Top rabbis participate in interfaith symposiums supposed to forster understanding, tolerance, and bring peace to the world!!! I see no difference between that and the support our government gives to our enemies. Just one week after the Gaza was was stopped, we gave Hamas $43.000.000.
A few months ago, Rabbi Shaar Yishuv HaCohen was Israel’s delegate to the Vatican, whose question was “What does the Torah mean for the Jews?” He spoke there about the Holocaust. What did the Pope do in response? He “rehabilitated” a Holocaust denier – slap in the face.
How many more slaps will Israel endure before it understands what Jewish pride means?

 

 

 

 

 

4 Comments

4 responses so far ↓

  • 1 jaizepier // Jul 4, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Good day

    http://www.internetmosque.net – audio Explanation of the English Quran

    Is there a original sin ?

    The key to Christian and especially Missionary Christian doctrine is the concept of Original Sin, namely that all mankind is condemned to death and eternal torture in Hell because of the sin of the original two people who disobeyed God and ate of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil.

    The teaching goes that God cursed them and all future generations and their act introduced death into the world.

    And there is nothing we can do about this inherited curse of our own accord. We are condemned from the moment of our birth and need a savior to rescue us. Left to our own devices we are literally, “Damned if we do and damned if we don’t.”

    Okay, let’s follow the golden rule of Torah study:

    don’t quote a single sentence “proof text”, read the whole section. What really happened here? (Please read Genesis Chapters 2 and 3. Come on, it just takes a few minutes.)

    Now off to the first curse, the snake. Notice verse 15, Chapter 3, “I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and hers….” [1 –

    Clearly the curse directed at the snake is eternal, given this reference to future generations. And it is a curse as verse 14 says,

    “Because you did this, more cursed shall you be…”

    Now look at the sixteenth verse, the alleged “curse” of the woman. Do you see the word “curse” there anywhere? No, because it is not there. The woman was punished for her acts but not cursed.

    On to Adam (Chapter 3, verses 17 -20). The word “cursed” appears in this section, right? Yes, but look at verse 17, “Cursed be the ground because of you.” Not “Cursed be you.” [italics mine – Big difference.

    Adam was going to have to farm (work hard) for a living but absolutely no curse was applied to him directly. It didn’t happen. Period.

    So we don’t have a curse? Wasn’t the punishment eternal?

    Check again. I’ve pointed out the reference to future generations in the curse of the snake. There is absolutely no reference to future generations in the punishments of Adam and Eve.

    Wasn’t this somehow implied?

    Well, look at some other sections. When God meant something to be eternal, He said so. Look at Chapter 17, verse 7 which gives the time span of God’s covenant with Abraham, “I will maintain My covenant between Me and you, and your offspring to come, throughout the ages, to be your God to you and to your offspring to come.”

    So God was perfectly capable of assigning a time frame, even an eternal time frame, to His actions when He wanted to. Obviously, a Supreme Being Who made the eternal nature of His blessing through Abraham so clear would have made the eternal nature of any curse through Adam equally clear.

    But can’t we prove the existence of some sort of eternal curse since Adam and Eve brought death to all mankind?

    Look at God’s pronouncement of Adam’s “death sentence” in verse 17, “For dust you are, and to dust you shall return.”

    So Adam and Eve were created with eternal life and then cursed with death, right? Surely their action is the reason we all must die?

    Wrong . Adam and Eve were born mortal. Note verse 17 does not says “Dust you have become” it says “Dust you are.”

    They never had eternal life in the first place. Then check out verses 22 through 25. God says (presumably to the angels) regarding Adam, “What if he should stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever?”

    In other words there was an action which Adam had not yet performed which was required for Adam to sustain his Body and receive an eternal nature.

    And what did God do after this statement? He drove Adam out of the garden and placed an angel with a flaming sword to guard the tree of life. In other words, Adam never had an immortal nature to lose. He was simply placed in a position where his mortal nature continued.

    let me explain it again :

    God placed an angel to guard the tree of life to prevent Adam and Eve from eating from it for the simple reason that if they had begun to eat from this tree their mortal natures would not have effected them . No Tree of Life = No immortality . We never had an immortal nature .

    The bottom line is that there never was any curse of original sin. Therefore never any need for anyone to die for us to remove such a curse. We are each responsible for our own actions and our own individual relationship with God.

    For more details http://www.internetmosque.net – click her

    |

    All of us will die one day INCLUDING YOU.

    so before you die you must find out where the HELL you are going too.

    You must find out

    who is our savior Jesus or ?

    You may sleep tonight and never get up in the morning?

    You may die today.

    You may die within a week

    You may die within a month

    you may die within a year

    you may die within the next ten years

    one thing for sure

    You will die

    so find out how is our savior so that he may save you.

    http://www.internetmosque.net/saviour/index.htm

    http://www.internetmosque.net/songes/s/1.htm

    http://www.internetmosque.net/songes/s/17.htm

    http://www.internetmosque.net/

    http://www.internetmosque.net/quran/quraneng/index.htm

    http://www.internetmosque.net/audio…n_Yahya/1_w.htm

    http://www.internetmosque.net/audio…f-Estes/1_w.htm

    http://www.internetmosque.net/audio…ilips/1-1_w.htm

  • 2 John // Jul 16, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    When I was a young man. I had many STRONG feelings. My emotions overuled Wisdom which comes from age and just plain logic. Looking at all the above, I see no difference in many of the words. I am sadened by the suggestion that ALL xtians want to convert Jews and have some kind of hidden agenda. All of the pride garbage above I read. Many xtians one day turn away from xtianity after they have done a hard study. Is it not a starting place for a gentile? Surely it must be, and that is unfortunate because many a Jew would rather insult then teach. Is it not written that one day “Ten men will take hold of the garment of the Jew, saying we herd that Gd was with you?” I understand how terrible Rome was/is. xtianity is built on the worst form Idolatry, but what does Gd want of the Jew? He most certainly does not want them to be hateful! Is it not written that “One law will be until both the Jew and the stranger……” I suggest that you also read Ezekiel 20 “I gave them also laws which were not good” (in the context that Gd created all). However; Gd used Rome for a purpose. Jews are not the only people on this planet to be slaughtered by Rome. My family in Zurich was also slaughtered, they neither followed Rome nor Martin Luther, but split off and said.. If it is not written in either old or new testaments, then we will not practice it. There were many Neff’s who hid Jews and protected them throughout the ages, my father and my family fought and suffered in wars of this country also and yet, two of you basically slapped me in the face. Then you suggest, you give a salute on one day? You two show no thankfulness at all to me and this is where you seem to have erred much. It is not in your mind, but in your heart.

    Some xtians (which I am not) are only looking for the truth and don’t want to convert anyone else. They want to know the creator of the Universe and they are empty without him and I will remind you two who slapped me in the face, that Israel was scattered also because Gd did not want his name prophaned among the gentiles.

    He wanted/still wants a Holy Priesthood in Israel to be a light unto the nations. I am not sure why you cannot simple say to the xtian, I reject your message and show them were Moses spoke of the Blessings and the curses. Where you will one day become the head and not the tail. Are you really that unbelieving in Gd that he you think you will be led astray? Are you not blessed greatly?

    Yes, you were treated terribly — but you were also protected and hidden. You also survived by Gds hand throughout the nations and even many of you became rich. Unless, you learn humility though – and kindness, even to the gentiles, you will never be his priest and that is what you were intended to be.

    So, will you not accept critism or instructions from a non Jew? How much more is a man, then an Ass in Gds view? Did not even an Ass critisize Balim?

  • 3 John // Jul 16, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    I would like to add….

    Regarding this…..
    ■WE JEWS GAVE WISDOM PROPHESY AND WEALTH TO EGYPT,THEY GAVE US SLAVERY.
    ■WE GAVE WISDOM, WEALTH AND EDUCATION TO SPAIN THEY CONVERTED OR KILLED US
    ■WE GAVE SOPHISTICATION WEALTH INTELLECT TO GERMANY THEY DESCIMATED US.
    ■WE GAVE BREAD WATER MONEY AND JOBS TO GAZA ARABS AND THEY GAVE US DEATH.

    That was written by a person who forgot Gd totally and think it was all on the man! What a bunch of Garbage! All good comes from Gd. He spared two people Joshua and Caleb out of those who went into the land, the rest gave a evil report and caused all the land of Israel to cry out and they begged to return to egypt. Still others said, no we will go into the land Gd promised, against Moses who said, no, Gd has said you will not go. The words above are arrogant words against Gd who created the Universe and blessed Israel with blessings. When will they say instead, Gd blessed us with WISDOM AND PROPHESY, yet we became stupid at one point and sold our brother Joseph into Egypt? Yeah, we even sought to kill him, if not for Reuben, because we were jealous our fathers’ love? When will they say? Gd gave us Wisdom, wealth and education which we shared with Spain, but they killed us because we thought that it came from us, and not from Hashem? Pride and arrogance is not a Jewish thing, it is a man thing, when he forgets where good things come from.

  • 4 John // Jul 17, 2010 at 8:45 am

    Muslim guy, no thank you. Jewish guy, would you not also be just as offended by a Muslim trying to steel your soul as a Xtian? I see no difference.

    Muslim guy. I do appreciate your insight of Gen 2,3. I would note though. Adam had the choice to eat of the tree of life until he came into the knowledge of good and evil. Therefore, you just disproved Islam itself because there is not a single thing a man can do at all to get to the “tree of life”. IE: You cannot receive eternal life (or 72 virgins, which by the way seems a bit cruel for them, why should they not get 72 studs instead) by learning the Quran method of Good and evil, in order to obtain eternal life.

    It can only be accomplished by an act of Gd. According to everything I have read, that act would be through Israel and not any other nation.
    If anything is plainly obvious, the hatred of men towards Israel. Where there is viel hatred and en by against one people, there is obviously something to it. I would rather side with the hated, then to hate.

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