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A READER ASKS ABOUT TODAYS RABBIS CHANGING THINGS…Yisroel Hakohaine answers the denier and disrupter. puts greg in his heretical place. Dina who started it all never answered

August 10th, 2010 · 50 Comments

READERS:  PLEASE CLICK ”COMMENTS AT BOTTOM OF ARTICLE TO SEE ALL  47  COMMENTS BY CLICKING THE TITLE.

FROM DINA:

I stumbled across your blog on the web and I have a question for you. And as you can see from the way I phrase it that I am a secular Jew.

If this is true (what you say in your blog)
‘WE ALL HAVE TO TRY A LITTLE HARDER..AND WE ARE NOT ABSOLVED FROM SIN FOR CALLING OURSELFS SECULAR OR REFORM…. Moshe Rabbeinu came down with ONE SET OF LAWS FOR ALL JEWS . Not 3 different sets. I was not judging anyone but merely showing the folly of lying to themselves about what their actions are versus what the TORAH ASKS OF US.’

How can we account for the multiplicity in interpretations in midrash and even in midrash halakha? Also don’t our interpretations change over time as a result of our changed circumstances and aren’t such changes accommodated even in Orthodox Judaism through the concept of hidush?
What types of hidush are miqubal and what aren’t and who has the right to decide?

Here is another idea I have been considering. In the diaspora adherence to the rulings of the batei din, at least for most Jews who are not Orthodox is voluntary. And there is also a phenomenon of hazara besheela among Orthodox or former Orthodox, which creates another category of Jews for whom adherence would be voluntary. In Israel this is not the case – perhaps this is why some of the psakei din coming from the Rabbanut seem so kaved and so inhumane and cause so much tsuris. They have the power of the state and the financial backing of the Israeli state treasury and so some feel they can use it and abuse it with immunity. Also given that calling American Jews rich is pretty ironic.

ANSWER FROM YISRAEL HAKOHANE: (see more of his insights and opinions on his page left side.)

  THIS IS A VERY COMPLEX DISCUSSION BECAUSE :

Definitions must be clearly defined. Moshe Rabbeinu is the Rabbi of all Israel. No rabbi after R’Moshe Rabbeinu has a right or authority to argue or disagree with him. This fact teaches us that there are different levels, grades and extent of authority of rabbis.

Ancient rabbis similar to Rabbi Moshe knowledge of the basic principles of Torah are immutable and unchangeable. It doesnt matter what age we live in,the principles of Torah remains the same. For example, just as its forbidden to light a fire on shabbat, it is like wise forbidden to turn on a lightbulb on shabbat. In the former case, wood is burning, in the latter case a filiment is burning inside the bulb which is essentially the same. This reasoning is applied to all areas of the modern world based on the teachings of what conservative and reform call ”ancient rabbis.

This what King Solomon meant when he said ”There is nothing new under the sun” Therefore the ancient Rabbis were unparalleled giants of the mind and spirit who would make Einstien look like a grade schooler. Therefore the later Rabbis can only interprete what the earlier Rabbis say because they lack the wisdom, the depth and the spiritual insight to fully understand the Torah properly as compared with the earlier Rabbis.

The Talmud says as each generation passes we get spiritually and intellectually weaker. Therefore the orthodox Rabbis are just keepers and preservers of the unbroken chain that goes directly back to Moshe Rabbeinu to whose authority that the ONE GD OF ISRAEL commanded the future generation to adhere to.

Any deviation from this principle is not authentic Torah, is not Judaism and is not GDs will. Those so called leaders who have not followed this principle has created a man made psuedo religion which has no place in Judaism.

 Many valid opinions are put forth by universally recognized and qualified authoritative Rabbis who adhere to these principles and the Torah tells us that we follow the majority of opinion. Halacha is not the chaotic fragmented mess that you have mistakenly thought it to be. Each opinion has its place and purpose that can be only determined by as described above by expert qualified Rabbis who know how to make sense of all of this.

 If you are referring to specific cases then please elaborate your personal experience because all the above mention Rabbis have yirat shamayeem ,fear of GD and do not take their own personal agendas into consideration. They use the rules and laws as brought down by Moshe Rabbeinu to render a proper decision.

 In every generation GD has gifted the Nation Of Israel with special unique Rabbis who is again universally recognizwed and accpeted as the wisest of thos generation for their talents in ability to understand and utilize properly Torah Law.

 There is much to be said on this subject. This is just a brief answer.

GREG REPLIES:

” Therefore the later Rabbis can only interprete what the earlier Rabbis say because they lack the wisdom, the depth and the spiritual insight to fully understand the Torah properly as compared with the earlier Rabbis. The Talmud says as each generation passes we get spiritually and intellectually weaker.”

It is because they listen to the Talmud that they’ve become weaker, as it is written in the Psalms “I have more understanding than all my teachers, for Your testimonies are my meditation. I understand more than the ancients, because I keep Your precepts.”

Who would you say is the equivalent of Nachman today?

EDITOR TO GREG:

GREG BASED ON YOUR PREVIOUS COMMENTS NOT POSTED.  I REVERT BACK TO MY VERY FIRST ANSWER TO YOU:
YOU ARE EITHER  NOT A JEW OR YOU HAVE ACCEPTED gods of other nations. I will call you a outsider. 
Who is Nachman ?  You dont have the right to  speak of A Rabbi on a low level  as you did. He is a Rabbi . Which Rabbi Nachman are you refering to?
.
.
 
 
ATT GREG:
YES THIS IS MY BLOG
YES I CHOSE WHAT TO POST
IF YOU ARE REDUNDANT OR FOOLISH I WILL NOT POST
I AM NOT TOLERANT TO GARBAGE,MISSIONARIES, LIARS DECEIVERS OR MISSONARIES. I OWE YOU NOTHING.
I OWE TO READERS TRUTH AS DETERMINED BY ME
CERTAINLY NOT BY YOU.
 
I ASKED YOU.WHICH NACHMAN.
YOU SAID I KNOW
I ASKED YOU WHICH NACHMAN….
DO YOU KNOW WHICH NACHMAN YOU ARE REFERING TO?
ARE YOU TRYING TO PUT ME ON DEFENSIVE?
YOU PLAY A HIGH SCHOOL GAME OF DEBATE
 
I ASKED YOU WHICH NACHMAN..
AND I SAID TO PUT THE TITLE OF RABBI BEFORE THE NAME
 
YOU ATTEMPT TO REVERSE THE GAME ON ME..
IF YOU WANT TO PLAY WITH ME.
THIS IS  MY FIELD
YOU PLAY BY MY RULES.
.
 
AS I ACCUSED YOU OF,
YOU ARE A XTIAN MOST LIKELY
OR A HERETIC THAT BOWS TO IDOLS .
 
YOU UNDERSTAND ONLY THE SURFACE, LIKE A XTIAN
OR AN IGNORAMUS.
 
I GAVE YOU LATITUDE
YOU CHALLENGED INSTEAD OF ANSWERING
UHH UHHH IT WONT GET POSTED THAT WAY…
 
YOU ARE A TYPICAL MISSIONARY,
ANSWERS QUESTIONS I DIDNT ASK
ATTEMPS TO GIVE ME A GUILT TRIP FOR NOT ANSWERING YOU WITHOUT ANSWERING ME  AND ANSWERING ME FOR WHAT I DIDNT ASK OF YOU
 
YOU TRY TO INSTILL DOUBT IN MY MIND
AND STILL SIDE STEP ANY ANSWERS THAT WILL COMMIT *YOU.
.
 
YOU CAN ANSWER
OR BE A CASE CLOSED AND I WILL GO BACK TO TELLING THE MISISONARY STORIES I INTENDED TO ORIGINALLY POST.
.
 
HEY JULES THE XTIAN MISSIONARY
I AM SORRY I DIDNT GET TO STEPPING ON YOUR  NAME TODAY..IAM TO BUSY  STEPPING ON GREG.
.
YO GREG..
HOW COME YOU XTIANS NEVER TELL ME….
WHO IS IN CHARGE OF POLISHING JESES STATUES?
IS IT YOU?
.
IN CHURCH,  
IS  POLISHING THE JESESS  CROTCH A SPECIAL  REWARD?
 
_______ ATT GREG__________
AGAIN I ASK YOU…
WHICH Rabbi Nachman are you refering to?
again Iaccuse you of being a jew4jesess
or a xtian missionary
 
I posted most of you comments
if  there any more, I will not go through the spam and arrogant filter to find more.
 
Again its you that cant explain which Rabbi Nachman you refer to.
You are a typical xtian missionary
challenging reversing intimidating provoking ..and you havent come up with anything substantial….
 
You can repent if you are a Jew
If you are not, you can learn the  ’7 Noahide laws’
 
if you are a gentleman you can be respectful when you address me.
 
I see you as a  confrontational  and insecure and a xtian
You are not invited to my party for kiddies any longer
I take back my invitation.
I will tell your mother about your conduct.
___________
FROM GREG:
 

Thank you, but you forgot the two in the other thread (COMING SOON, A hardcore XCHRISTIAN missionary…) and also posted these out of sequence, though I’m sure your reader will be smart enough to figure that out.

I figured you were smart enough to figure out which Nachman I was referring to because you not only referred to him as a rabbi, but also because you referred to the posts we’d just been talking about him in.

The hypocritical thing on your part is that you expect me to give respect to a rabbi who violates God’s laws yet you yourself cast aside your respect for Tovia because you felt he did the same. You’ve mocked me as (you say) Jeremy and Tovia mocked you and yet feel justified to do so because you determine what the truth is. God required you to have just scales, not one set of you and one set for ‘outsiders’. As it is, your scales don’t balance and you’ve used unjust scales which God also condemns. “Dishonest scales are an abomination to the Lord, but a just weight is His delight.”

  • FROM  Greg // Aug 12, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Why should you have to look? I pointed you to the thread they were in as well as remind you of the discussion we just had regarding The Disputation of 1263. Seriously, I thought you were bright enough to put it all together. (And by gauging the traffic you get here, I can’t imagine you were so flooded with other comments that mine got lost in the crush).

    And if you hear any antagonistic tone in my posts, it’s only because of the ringing in your ears from your constant shouting. I’m merely pointing out certain things and asking questions of my own that have gone unanswered… only to have you shout and insult and accuse. For one who seeks to serve God, you really have things upside down.

    You can accuse all you want, but you haven’t any proof to back those accusations up and as such, again, are guilty before God.

  • ___________
    FROM EDITOR:
     
    greg whats the name of your church?
     
    greg do you polish the statues sunday morning
    or on saturday.
    greg ole buddy.
    I dont teach xtians
    I dont even care to correct you so you can use it against unsuspecting JEWS.
    Your technique is to use  a drop of knowledge as a weapon…
    if  I  add to  that drop, then I would be responsible for GD FORBID any damage to a JEW.
     
    EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS WRONG
    YOU CAN HAVE A SHARE IN  THE WORLD TO COME
    IF YOU  REPENT  ACCORDING TO  THE LAWS BROUGHT DOWN BY MOSES.
     
    START WITH LEARNING THE 2nd COMMANDMENT  WITH THE COMMENTARY…
    BUT NOT PUBLISHED BY THE XTIAN PUBLISHING COMPANY.
     
    THEN BUY 2 BOOKS  CALLED
    1) SEVEN COLORS OF THE RAINBOW
    2)PATH OF  THE RIGHTOUS  GENTILE
     
    IF YOU ARE A JEW
    YOU ARE IN DEEP TROUBLE
    YOU NEED TO BUY A 3rd BOOK CALLED
    ”TO BE A JEW’
     
    IF THESE DONT AFFECT YOU
    THEN BUY A LIFETIME PASS TO DISNEYLAND
    GO DIRECTLY TO MAGIC KINGDOM 
    TAKE A ROOM WITH DUMBO OR  PLUTO
    PLEASE LEAVE MICKEY ALONE
    HE IS JUST AS  LOST  AS YOU
    __________________
    FROM GREG:
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

    David, not meaning to repeat myself here, but I said earlier,
    “It is because they listen to the Talmud that they’ve become weaker, as it is written in the Psalms “I have more understanding than all my teachers, for Your testimonies are my meditation. I understand more than the ancients, because I keep Your precepts.””
    So, again, what benefit is there in the commentaries? How have they helped you? You focus on the Second commandment while forsaking the rest. What have you corrected me with? What passage, what Truth of God through Moses? Nothing. Instead, you yell, insult and try and provoke through empty and childish taunts like polishing statues and visiting amusement parks. Seriously, where in the law and testimonies does it cover that?
    ____________
    FROM EDITOR:
    IT SAYS,
    ‘DO NOT BE KIND TO  THE MISSIONARY’  DEUT.
    IT SAYS
    ‘SPEAK TO A FOOL IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE’ KING SOLOMON

     

    AND YOU STILL DO NOT REVEAL WHO YOU ARE
    You still play the game of reversing  and deceit.
     
    I am not provoking. I am responding, another misisonary tactic TO MAKE ME  feel guilty.You’re a joke.
    I post all your stuff so readers can see through you.
     
    I must call your church to retrain you with up to date tactics.
    your evasiveness makes more feel you are xtian.You pull out a line here and a line there and create a whole imaginary story.
    Its called ‘forcing an answer’
    same as you twist all other HEBREW SRIPTURES.
    The more I read your posts to me the more I despise you
    for what you do to  weaker JEWS.
     
    WHO IS RABBI NACHMAN?
     
     
    I just met someone who can let you use his ‘time share’ in Disneyland until you buy your permanent spot.

     

    Tags: Business and Economy NEWS · Commentary & Opinion · JEWISH LOVE · Jewish World & History · Missionary attacks · Parasha & Religion

    50 responses so far ↓

    • 1 Greg // Aug 11, 2010 at 12:09 am

      “Therefore the later Rabbis can only interprete what the earlier Rabbis say because they lack the wisdom, the depth and the spiritual insight to fully understand the Torah properly as compared with the earlier Rabbis. The Talmud says as each generation passes we get spiritually and intellectually weaker.”

      It is because they listen to the Talmud that they’ve become weaker, as it is written in the Psalms “I have more understanding than all my teachers, for Your testimonies are my meditation. I understand more than the ancients, because I keep Your precepts.”

      Who would you say is the equivalent of Nachman today?

    • 2 DACON9 // Aug 11, 2010 at 5:23 am

      POSTED IN THE ARTICLE:
      LETS WAIT FOR COMMMENTS.

    • 3 Greg // Aug 11, 2010 at 1:05 pm

      It’s ironic that you dismiss Jeremy and Tovia because they didn’t maintain a purity of doctrine you thought they should (calling Tovia, Tovia just as I called Nachman, Nachman) and yet say I’m an outsider and out of place for doing as such to Nachman… which, since you referenced the two posts you acknowledge you didn’t post, is quite clear which Nachman I’m referring to.

    • 4 Greg // Aug 11, 2010 at 10:34 pm

      “TRUTH AS DETERMINED BY ME”

      Then you don’t serve God, do you? Pr. 3:5

    • 5 Greg // Aug 11, 2010 at 10:54 pm

      Oh, and why not post my comments so your reader can decide for themself which of us does and doesn’t answer questions.

    • 6 Greg // Aug 12, 2010 at 9:53 am

      Thank you, but you forgot the two in the other thread (COMING SOON, A hardcore XCHRISTIAN missionary…) and also posted these out of sequence, though I’m sure your reader will be smart enough to figure that out.

      I figured you were smart enough to figure out which Nachman I was referring to because you not only referred to him as a rabbi, but also because you referred to the posts we’d just been talking about him in.

      The hypocritical thing on your part is that you expect me to give respect to a rabbi who violates God’s laws yet you yourself cast aside your respect for Tovia because you felt he did the same. You’ve mocked me as (you say) Jeremy and Tovia mocked you and yet feel justified to do so because you determine what the truth is. God required you to have just scales, not one set of you and one set for ‘outsiders’. As it is, your scales don’t balance and you’ve used unjust scales which God also condemns. “Dishonest scales are an abomination to the Lord, but a just weight is His delight.”

    • 7 Greg // Aug 12, 2010 at 4:31 pm

      Why should you have to look? I pointed you to the thread they were in as well as remind you of the discussion we just had regarding The Disputation of 1263. Seriously, I thought you were bright enough to put it all together. (And by gauging the traffic you get here, I can’t imagine you were so flooded with other comments that mine got lost in the crush).

      And if you hear any antagonistic tone in my posts, it’s only because of the ringing in your ears from your constant shouting. I’m merely pointing out certain things and asking questions of my own that have gone unanswered… only to have you shout and insult and accuse. For one who seeks to serve God, you really have things upside down.

      You can accuse all you want, but you haven’t any proof to back those accusations up and as such, again, are guilty before God.

    • 8 Greg // Aug 13, 2010 at 12:31 am

      David, not meaning to repeat myself here, but I said earlier,

      “It is because they listen to the Talmud that they’ve become weaker, as it is written in the Psalms “I have more understanding than all my teachers, for Your testimonies are my meditation. I understand more than the ancients, because I keep Your precepts.””

      So, again, what benefit is there in the commentaries? How have they helped you? You focus on the Second commandment while forsaking the rest. What have you corrected me with? What passage, what Truth of God through Moses? Nothing. Instead, you yell, insult and try and provoke through empty and childish taunts like polishing statues and visiting amusement parks. Seriously, where in the law and testimonies does it cover that?

    • 9 Greg // Aug 13, 2010 at 9:31 am

      “‘DO NOT BE KIND TO THE MISSIONARY’ DEUT. ”

      Deuteronomy what?

      Yes, and thank you for posting it so others can see. You were the one who asked which Nachan I was referring to… not asking who he is, but my question was who is his equivalent today because the author of this article/answer stated,

      “In every generation GD has gifted the Nation Of Israel with special unique Rabbis who is again universally recognizwed and accpeted as the wisest of thos generation for their talents in ability to understand and utilize properly Torah Law.”

      And your assertion that “True TORAH ORTHODOX rabbis can and do win everytime.”

      So I was just wondering who today’s ‘Nachman’ is and so put this assertion to the test. Because I also asked (and you didn’t answer… evading???) “If getting to the heart of God’s truth isn’t an honest spiritual endeavor, what is?” (but your reader would know that because you didn’t post those two responses… still waiting moderation)

    • 10 Greg // Aug 13, 2010 at 4:00 pm

      You said elsewhere: “TORAH IS THE BEST WEAPON TO FIGHT THE ENEMIES”

      Why not begin to practice what you advocate?

    • 11 Greg // Aug 15, 2010 at 5:25 pm

      **I guess it’s a good thing I keep copies… will try this again:

      Come on David, it can’t be that hard… Which Nachman were we talking about? Who is his equivalent today? According to the author of this article there has to be someone of this generation who has risen to his stature, and as your assertion would never lose…

      And could you tell me what the show # was that you called in and yelled at Jeremy and Tovia? (I asked that in the previous thread, but you didn’t answer). Oh, and what happened to the response you posted Friday where you yelled more, mocked more and offered to teach me for
      $49.99? Did you suddenly worry that I’d take you up on your offer?

    • 12 Greg // Aug 15, 2010 at 11:25 pm

      “The more I read your posts to me the more I despise you for what you do to weaker JEWS.”

      So you despise those who try to strengthen? Go back to my first post… my very first post in the other thread and tell me what I was trying to do. It was to help. The more I’ve read of your posts the more help you show yourself to need.

      In your post about your fight with Arutz 7, Jeremy and Tovia, you said, ” I YELLED IN “ we are taught to separate from goyim but not to ridicule, mock or embarrass goyim, especially publicly. I DONT HAVE GOY FRIENDS BUT I DONT INSULT THEM PUBLICLY JEREMY….”

      Is this a true statement? And the only reason I bring it up is because God said He wouldn’t justify the wicked. That’s why I pointed it out, so you could correct the situation.

      You worry about the weak Jews, but demonstrate through your attacks and now silence that you haven’t any better defense than that… that your claim, “AND EVERY JEW THAT CAN REBUT YOUR LIES, MISINTERPRETATIONS ,TWISTS, AND WORD GAMES” is just that a claim and not grounded in truth, because you’ve accused but haven’t proven…

      Like Balaam’s donkey, I’ve tried to turn aside, keep you safe from harm but, you kept hitting, kept striking out. You’ve done to me what you criticized Jeremy of doing to others and feel blameless… you really should do as your namesake King David and repent:

      Ps 51:4-14

      Ciao!

    • 13 Shimon // Aug 17, 2010 at 9:05 am

      Editor
      Good call on your decision that Greg is a goy.
      his conceptual understanding is from a complete outsider .
      Especially when his allegation is he despises you for what you do to weaker Jews?
      Weak Jews have to take responsibility for every one of their aveiras and will ultimately pay for them.
      including the aveiras weak Jews are responsible for encouraging other Jews to do.
      Sorry reformatards, you cannot make up your own rules.

    • 14 Shimon // Aug 17, 2010 at 9:13 am

      By the way Greg
      there are several Rav Nachmans
      also i think your a flat out goy, but if you are a Jew, you might want to study and learn some LOSHAN HARA .
      Jews aren’t supposed to publicly post our hatred for other Jews , as you did so to Dacon by claiming you despise him.
      A very serious action against him.

    • 15 Shimon // Aug 17, 2010 at 9:15 am

      Dacon watch
      I will go to class and come back and find some ignorant text from Greg. he probably got from the yeshko books.lol

    • 16 DACON9 // Aug 17, 2010 at 4:14 pm

      I POSTED THAT I DESPISE GOYIM FOR WHAT THEY DO TO WEAKER JEWS..
      SO HE WAS MOCKING ME..
      HE IS TRYING TO CATCH ME WITH MY OWN WORDS..
      BUT HE DOESNT KNOW THAT A JEW IS TO REBUKE TO BRING HIM UP OR TO SABE HIM FROM THE MISSIONARIES LIKE GREG…
      HE HAS NO UNDERRSTANDING ,,LIKE YOU SAID ..
      DO YOU WANT TO EDIT YOUR POST?
      Editor
      Good call on your decision that Greg is a goy.
      his conceptual understanding is from a complete outsider .
      Especially when his allegation is he despises you for what you do to weaker Jews?
      Weak Jews have to take responsibility for every one of their aveiras and will ultimately pay for them.
      including the aveiras weak Jews are responsible for encouraging other Jews to do.
      Sorry reformatards, you cannot make up your own rules.

      I ARGUE WITH THESE GUYS ALLNIGHT IN THE PALTALK CHAT ROOMS

      LWET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT TO EDIT?

      THANKS
      DAVID

    • 17 DACON9 // Aug 18, 2010 at 8:39 pm

      GREG IS REFERRING TO NACHMANIDES IN REFERENCE TO DESPUTATIONS THAT I MENTIONED IN MY COMMENTARY.
      I KNOW WHAT HE MEANT.
      BUT HE DIDNT KNOW WHAT HE MEANT…LOL
      HE IS CALLING NACHMANIDES , NACHMAN, REPEATEDLY.
      PROVING HE DOESNT KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT, IT WASNT A TYPO.
      I WAS TRYING TO BRING OUT HIS RELIGIOUS AFFILIATION
      WHICH HE NEVER DID…

    • 18 Greg // Aug 21, 2010 at 2:53 am

      David,

      We were talking about the disputation of 1263, you referring to Nachmanides and me referring to him as Nachman (As he’s identified in several resources. Me, I just shorted it from Moses ben Nachman to Nachman). If you were trying to get at the technical definition, you should have said so… seems again your hypocrisy is showing because whereas I’ve been trying to help you avoid getting snared, you’ve intentionally tried ensnaring me via this technicality.

      As far as unanswered questions… who is his equivalent today?

      If getting to the heart of God’s truth isn’t an honest spiritual endeavor, what is?

      What were the show #’s you yelled at Jeremy and Tovia on?

      If you knew what I meant, why not answer the question and fulfill what God wrote in Micah, to do justice, love mercy and walk humbly with God?

      I suppose it’s easier for you to be distracted by a minor technicality, as it’s something you can deal with as opposed to tackling the harder issues I brought up.

      What does it matter my ‘religious affiliation’ if you can’t accept your own rabbis… if you reject them because of what they say, for violating God’s word. Must one conform to the truth ‘as determined by you.’ to be approved in your sight?

      You, again, are required to have just scales… not one set for Jew and one for ‘outsiders’. You corrected Shimon offering him the opportunity to edit his comments. Yet, didn’t provide me the same… Unjust scales.

    • 19 EDITOR DACON9 // Aug 22, 2010 at 6:17 am

      POINT: GREGG AS ALL XTIANS USED DECEPTION. HE POSED AS A NEW TALKBACKER ‘SHIMON’ WHO MADE AN ERROR AND ATTRIBUTED A QUOTE TO GREG WHERE IT WAS MY QUOTE THAT I DISPISE XTIANS THAT POUNCE ON WEAK JEWS. AND SO I gave him the opportunity to rephrase his talkback. SO SHIMON IS NOT CALLED INACCURATE OR ENHANCINGA COMMENT.

      and further. Greg DID NOT KNOW THE NAME NACHMANIDES UNTIL I TOLD IT TO SHIMON. Greg still calls Nachmanides another name Nachman.Greg claims that Nachmanides is often refered to as Nachman. More stupidity from greg. Hereafter greg get a lower case ‘g’ displaying MY DISGUST AND DISRESPECT FOR DECEIVERS SUCH AS greg.

      There is a group of yeshiva students that will be answering greg shortly.So stay tuned…

    • 20 Greg // Aug 22, 2010 at 11:21 am

      David,

      Though there are numerous typos, both on your side and mine, I knew what you meant despite them and addressed the core point of your argument. Unfortunately the same can’t be said for you.

      I’m not sure what you meant with your “Point…” above. Who posed as a new ‘talkbacker’? Are you saying Shimon is a Christian posing as a Jew?

      And if you can’t answer the simple questions that came up in conversation, why would Yeshiva students be called in to do so? (besides, how would your readers know they really are yeshiva students and not someone posing as such?)

      You suggested I read your account of your run in with Jeremy and Tovia, which mentioned you yelling at them on their show. I simply asked was which show (so I could listen). And as yet, haven’t received a response… you just making way too much of this Nachman thing. (Again him being called Moses ben Nachman, me simply using Nachman… like calling you by your ‘last name’ when in conversation with another person).

      So… David… if you could explain the first paragraph in your latest reply and answer the other questions… that would be great.

    • 21 p. pie // Aug 23, 2010 at 11:16 pm

      Dacon9 and Gregg,

      oy vey, you two, enough already! :-) You are each trying to beat the other person into submission by winning an argument!

      Gregg, I don’ t think you are convincing Dacon9 of anything; and Dacon9, you are also not convincing Gregg of anything.

      You are each wanting to be right instead of listening to each other.

      Gregg, if you are a Chr-stian (and I’m not convinced you are) but IF you are, please do not hide that. To do so would be deceitful and not honorable. It will ultimately backfire on you and have the opposite effect of what you may be trying to achieve in your dialog with Dacon9. Also, it would be wrong to come here to this Jewish site and proselytize. I see this over and over again, Christians whose only interest in Jews is to try to convert them, Christians who don’t even understand what Jews believe and yet who try to tell them they are wrong. Christian treatment of Jews is so often shamefully disrespectful.

      And Dacon9, you will probably forever censor me for saying this, but when you say you don’t insult Chr-stians, I just want you to know that maybe you didn’t mean to insult, and maybe I’m the only Chr-stian in the world who feels this way, but there have been a few times when you have deeply insulted my faith, or people who post here have. (I still twinge when I remember someone who once wrote on your site that Christianity is “excrement.”) But it is okay. I am a big girl and I can take it. I don’t take offense and I am not mad at you for it. It’s more a feeling of sadness I have that such sentiments are held by people in this world who love G-d.

      I respect you and admire you for many things and also feel thanks for you.

      This is your site. You can say what you want, you can censor whom you want (perhaps me this time.) But before you censor or edit anyone, please remember what it feels like to you when Ynet does the same to you.

      My main concern is that you will be angry at me after reading this. I hope not. Please believe me that I’m saying these things with a gentle heart and am not angry as I write this. (It is often so easy when reading printed words to not know the spirit in which someone says something and to think someone is angry when they aren’t, or to think they are kidding when they are being serious, etc.) I’m just telling you my sensitivity about this. I don’t expect you to agree with me, nor do I need you to, and that’s a good thing as you surely won’t agree with me, and that’s okay too and I won’t think any less of you for it.

      I hope I haven’t angered you, Dacon9 (and also Gregg)

      Sigh :-(

      P. Pie

    • 22 Greg // Aug 24, 2010 at 6:42 pm

      ***Again, I’m glad I keep copies of these… ***

      P.Pie,

      “How long will you judge unjustly, And show partiality to the wicked? Selah”

      The Psalmist asked the above question and it’s one that is more pointed to you than to David as you have definitely shown partiality to him.

      If his website was a bookstore, should I yell upon entering what my religious affiliation is? Should I state it up front when beginning a conversation… asking questions about a statement he makes? Or should I simply stitch a yellow emblem on my lapel and save the trouble?

      In the law of Moses the Lord commands Israel not to oppress the stranger as they were strangers in Egypt. David suggested I read his run in with Jeremy and Tovia, I did and came across where he said that he called in to their radio show, twice, and yelled at them. I simply asked what the show # / title was so I could find them and listen.

      David is all bluff and bluster. Playing the hypocrite thinking God will justify him because of his zeal. It’s unfortunate really, as well as for you. You say you’re a Christian, but by your actions prove otherwise.

      You both want to label and judge by that label, but as God told Samuel when selecting among the sons of Jesse, ‘For the LORD does not see as
      man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.’

      P.Pie, if David couldn’t anger me, how could you? The only ones you are deceiving/harming are yourselves. The only reason I wrote, and
      continued to write, was in hopes that he would see his folly and turn back from it. There comes a point in time when God stops warning and
      brings judgment.

      “By transgression an evil man is snared…”

      David has my email address, should the yeshiva students, or anyone else wish to contact me in his defense…

    • 23 Yisroel HaKohen // Aug 24, 2010 at 8:52 pm

      Brief Response to Greg:

      You have mistranslated the verse that you have quoted from the book of Psalms. Either the mistranslation was intentional or it was done in ignorance. The verses that you quote from Psalms are from chapter 119:99-100. You erroneously translated the verse as follows: “I am wiser than all of my teachers because Your testimonies I discuss. I have more understanding than my elders because I meditate upon Your teachings.” Any Yeshiva school child would never make the mistake in translating the verse this way. The correct translation from the Hebrew text goes as follows: “From all my teachers I grew wise for Your testimonies are a discussion for me. From wise elders I gain understanding because Your precepts I have guarded.” The correct interpretation in fact teaches the exact opposite from what you in your ignorance have translated and try to use as a proof to your foolish assertion that the Talmud lacks wisdom. The Talmud was transmitted orally from generation to generation directly from Moses until it was finally written down in approximately the year 500. Since you never learned the Talmud you do not know how intensely and thoroughly each and every law and verse that is written in the Bible is analyzed, questioned and questioned again based upon certain rules until a clear and exact understanding of each law and verse is derived. It takes the most brilliant of minds to be able to clearly understand the Talmud. Christian learning is mere rhetoric, shallow understanding, and often twists or misquotes the truth. Christian teaching lacks the depth, brilliance, honestly, and clarity that the Talmud has. Therefore, your total misinterpretation of the verses in Psalms clearly shows the depth or the lack thereof of Christian learning. You, Greg who can’t even translate a simple verse in Psalms correctly and have never learned the Talmud have no right or authority to dismiss the greatness and sanctity of the Talmud by mere rhetoric without actually proving what you say through any actual quotes from the Talmud which you are unable to do. Even if you had learned the Talmud you never would be able to disprove it. The way you dismissed the Talmud without even knowing its contents is typical of ignorant Christian propagandists of your ilk. It has been the Talmud as taught by Mosses our teacher that has clarified and preserved the Torah and the Jewish people throughout the ages. The church was aware of this fact and this is why the church burnt the Talmud en mass in the medieval era. Greg before you enter the ring of discussion you should have some basic knowledge before you make statements. Without the basic knowledge you come across as a ignorant fool. Instead you should humble yourself and say I do not know and I want to understand instead of saying foolish statements that aren’t true or cannot be substantiated. I know my Talmud and Bible very well. I am an expert of history and know my historical facts. So please don’t waste my time with your complete ignorance by stating untruths. If you want to humble yourself and learn from one who knows that is fine but don’t pretend you know something when you don’t because you lose all your respect.

      Yisroel HaKohen.

    • 24 editor,DACON9 // Aug 24, 2010 at 9:41 pm

      ATT P.PIE
      I RESENT YOUR XTIANS JUDGEMENT OF ME GOING HEAD TO HEAD WITH GREG.
      I AM THE LIGHT UNTO THE NATIONS.
      I EDUCATE OR IGNORE AFTER A TIME.
      As a blogger i give answers not nessasarily to the writer but to the reader also, inspite of me knowing that the one i am addressing is an ignoramus.
      Now please read the latest answer by ISROEL HAKOHAINE.
      The same applies to you.
      You dont know what I am speaking of therefore you cannot judge what you do not know and that is Judaism.That means what i say about Judaism.
      What greg called ”trying to get him angry” is actually trying to educate him to where finally i had my own fun playing with wit.YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THAT I WAS QUITE FUNNY..
      greg is a fool and i dismissed him as a fool and the readers realize he is a fool.
      You asked me to pray for you a few times and i did. You recognized the ONE GD OF ISRAEL AS ”ALL POWERFUL ONE’
      This newest comment i find as a dissapointment.
      Yes,please continue to write anytime to me. Yes I have and will post your thoughts. Yes i do respect you to a degree, but I see your allegiance and belief is limited and conditional when you need my prayers as LIGHT TO YOUR PATH.When you put limitations on your guiding light which is the ONE GD OF ALL THINGS REPRESENTED BY HIS FAVORITE CHILD THE JEWS,,,, you limit your self.
      LEARN THE NOAHIDE LAWS,SMASH YOUR gods like ABRAHAM DID IN HIS FATHERS TENTS, tHATS SPIRITUAL IDOLS JESES IN YOUR HEARTS AND PHYSICAL IDOLS SUCH AS JESE MARY AND ALL THOSE IDOLS IN YOUR CHURCHES, IN YOUR MINDS AND IN YOUR HOMES AND IN YOUR WRITINGS.

      AS I SAID FROM EARLY ON. greg is a liar a deceiver a satan and a test to you. IN the chat rooms fyre fly silver tigress seeker akbar and many others are blinded an liars..what a combination…they lie to suppoort their blindness, hoping to believe what they know deep down as a lie…THATS XTIANITY. xt9ians close their ears inorder not to question themselfs, xtians do it enough so they eventually will die for what they have doubts about just to prove they dont have doubts….

    • 25 p. pie // Aug 24, 2010 at 11:16 pm

      To Gregg and Dacon9,

      Well, I see I angered you both. I am sorry. My words were obviously not edifying and I should have kept them to myself.

      And Dacon9, I am especially sorry to you. After all, this is your site and it was wrong of me to insert myself into your discourse with someone else and to insert myself as a judge.

      And Gregg, I see you quoting verses here and there from the Bible to support your viewpoints. That is a wonderful skill to have so many Bible verses by memory, but be careful to shape yourself according to G-d’s word instead of shaping G-d’s word to your own views.

    • 26 Greg // Aug 25, 2010 at 1:21 am

      It’s ironic that this whole interaction/ conversation with David came because I was concerned over him relying on Tovia Singer to defend against someone persistently (according to David) pursuing him against his wishes. I cited Jeremiah 17:5 “Cursed is the man who trusts in man And makes flesh his strength,…”

      Not only has he done so again, relying on Yisroel’s education and response to point P.Pie to, instead of answering for himself… but doesn’t realize how Yisroel’s post has failed him.

      Yisroel misquotes the verse he says is a mistranslation when all he had to do was simply copy and paste. Then the next question that came up as I read through was, ‘Who were Solomon’s teachers?’ From whom did he receive his legendary wisdom?

      How do you know the translation you use is accurate? Who told you? Is it the version your teachers and their teachers used?

      For me, I asked the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to show me His truth and He did… so, I’ll put my trust in Him and not in you.

      Jeremiah 17:5 also applies to those who put their trust in the Talmud.

      Okay, I’m off… I’ll be back to make sure this gets posted and then if you want to chat, you can send an email. But if you write, please be sure to answer the outstanding questions first.

    • 27 editor,DACON9 // Aug 25, 2010 at 10:00 pm

      gregory,what a lovely xtian name.it stands for everything obnoxious. xtians are the master killers in the world.No other religion or culture has concentrated on ways to exterminate and torture people as the xtians. xtians are most intelligent on disections of cultures except when it comes to JUDAISM which xtians have been trying since jeseses the fabled mangod. paul tried to teach his version of a mythical mangod jueses to the JEWS AND WAS REJECTED.NOT ONE RABBI AT HIS TIME ACCEPTED pauls teachings so he went to the non jews.
      greg, I love answering you..you are like a therapy where i get to say things that I would never do with normal people. but you are such a low life that its an enjoyment to relieve myself on your name.
      greg baby,

      you dont speak hebrew, you was not born into Hebrew language you was not born into TORAH LEARNING , and you are a flea on on humanity.you insult Yisroel Hakohaine who is fluent in hebrew,who is a rabbi, who lived ini Israel for 15 years.you are only a donkey.

      This latest comment you offer on how this all started is another lie from you as it is openly proven by your first comment on YISROEL HAKOAHINE COMMENT….NOT MINE! Just scroll back…hahahaha
      xxtians find it so easy to lie and deceive even to the point where they will die as I mentioned manytimes to defend their position that they may not believe in themself.

      There is a possiblity that you are this other missionary that tried to get the better of me by the name of jules gilbert offering me guanteed hard cash. you may be one and the same..one of your many personas like ‘shimon’.

      I get extreme pleasure from insulting you even knowing that you are such a low life that nothing of truth and values affects you. I still get a pleasure from this. You are evil scum of the world.
      I say this in person face to face I have said like things to other misisonaries. I am not hiding behind the internet.
      My message is to all JEWS THAT WE DO NOT AND ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE KIND OR TOLERANT TO THESE PEOPLE. WE OWE THEM NOTHING. WE OWE TO ”’ONE GD OF ISRAEL”’ EVERYTHING, and “”HE”" tells us not to be kind to missionaries.

      I get a mitzvah when I reveal these people to the NATION OF ISRAEL.
      the goal and doctrine of xtianinity is to convert jews to accept their statues,idols and mangod. paul george peter and ringo said that…oh thats the beatles…

      note the arrogance from gregory the lowlife when he said ”i’ll be back to make sure this is posted” he is gonna ”make sure”
      THERE IS NO XTIAN IN THIS WORLD THAT SHOULD BE TRUSTED OR RESPECTED OTHER THEN A CORDIAL HELLO AND GOODBYE.
      THERE IS NO XTIAN THAT SHOULD BE INVITED INTO YOUR HOMES
      NO INTERFAITH DINNERS
      NO INTERFAITH DIALOGUES
      NO INTERFAITH INTERFAITHS
      LOL
      JEWS ARE THE REASON THE WORLD EXISTS
      THEY KNOW IT
      THE XTIANS ARE JEALOUS OF IT
      THEY DO HAVE THE INTELLIGENCE TO PROVOKE YOU AND INTIMIDATE YOU.
      BUT YOU JEWS HAVE GD AS YOU SWORD AND SHIELD TO CONQUER ALL THE EVILS THROUGH LEARNING ..THROUGH KNOWLEDGE OF TORAH…A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE GOES A LONG LONG WAY.

      This is the time for all JEWS to reach UP to GD and apologize for all the trangsgressions we have done and hope the ONE GD OF EVERYTHING ACCEPTS OUR APOLOGIES,KNOWING ‘HE’ WILL if we try a bit more to serve “HIM” through TORAH LESSONS, through a torah orthodox rabbi or a book purchased through JEWISH SOURCES.

      greg you are welcomed to expose yourself here anytime you want.You are the best teacher I ever had to show the ignorance the stupity and arrogance of xtians. you can repent greg baby..loose your idols learn the second commandment and learn the Noahide laws…. a lousy 7 laws with 66 subsets and you filthy xtians cant even do.

      by the way..today I had an encounter in NYC with a missionary on 42st and BDWAY. and his 3 friends…they are all wounded bleeding on the field of dreams…last year I was approached by a mormon…thats another story,briefly he wanted to convert to JUDAISM AFTER ONE HOUR WITH ME..no fancy talk from me,only exposing xtian lies…
      gregorgy….your chanting is scary..oogah boogah

      Readers remember all references to greg I have posted in lower font because he isnt in front of me where I can urinate on him.

    • 28 Yisroel HaKohen // Aug 26, 2010 at 10:38 pm

      Second Brief Response to Greg:

      Dear Greg I passed the New York State Hebrew exams and I am a certified and licensed Hebrew teacher by the New York State Department of Education. I have been giving lectures and classes in Hebrew for several decades to many people. The verse I quoted in Psalms can be verified by looking it up in any authentic Jewish publication which translates the Bible into English. I speak a fluent Hebrew and have known Hebrew since I was a small child. These are my credentials and Dacon and others who know me can verify what I have just written. Let’s examine your credentials for a minute. You do not read or speak Hebrew. You do not even know how many letters there are in the Hebrew alphabet. In addition, you cannot recite any of the Hebrew names of the books of the Bible nor do you know the Hebrew names of the famous personalities mentioned in the Bible. You never learned the Talmud. You do not know the Aramaic language, the language in which the Talmud is written. You made a vague and blanket statement that the Talmud has a negative impact upon the truth. In addition, you did not quote a single teaching or statement from the Talmud which would confirm or verify your statement. I ask you here and now to write down in detail which specific statements of the Talmud you feel is corrupt. One cannot just make a blanket statement without providing statements and proofs to what you have said. I ask you to at least give me the Hebrew names of the famous personalities mentioned in the Bible. Obviously, you are unable to back up your statements with specific proofs. You are certainly not able to give me the Hebrew names of the famous Bible personalities which I have requested. Given the above mentioned credentials of both of us who would a person prefer to rely upon for their understanding of the verse in Psalms? Would they prefer to rely upon my explanations of the verse in Psalms or Greg’s interpretation of the verse in Psalms? If a person had to bet their life upon the correct interpretation of the verse would they bet on Greg’s interpretation of verse? Greg every verse you quoted is either incorrect or has been misapplied. No one can compete with the mind that has been sharpened by years of Talmudical debate. In the Talmud no teaching or statement is accepted unless it can be proven and supported by solid proofs. Your method and lack of any credible proof to back up what you say is so poor and unacceptable in the realm of debate, therefore what you have said is nonsense and irrelevant. Your logic and methodology or the lack thereof is so deficient and substandard that it cannot stand up to scrutiny. In fact, you are so simple-minded and ignorant that you don’t even realize how ignorant you are or how poor your presentation has been. Based on the way you write and present your so called arguments seems to prove to me that you did not even attend college. Since your level of education is lacking you do not even realize how silly and ridiculous your presentation was. There is nothing more to say other than as the “scarecrow” in the Wizard of Oz said, “If I only had a brain!” Greg, please get an education and come back in a few years before you are able to converse with any credible intelligence. Thank You.

      Yisroel HaKohen.

    • 29 Yisroel HaKohen // Aug 26, 2010 at 11:10 pm

      Third Brief Response to Greg:

      Greg you mentioned that the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob told you the correct understanding of the verse in Psalms and you only rely upon Him. This statement begs for a clarification. What does this statement mean? Does this mean that you are a prophet and that G-d speaks to you directly? Does this statement mean that you have the Divine spirit and therefore you are able to Divine the meanings of verses without knowing Hebrew? How did G-d speak to you? In what language did He speak to you? How did you know it was G-d speaking to you? Maybe it was Satan speaking to you. Did anyone else hear the voice that you were privy to hear? In which manner do you rely on G-d? Which form of service connects you to G-d that you are able to have G-d talk with you? It says in Isaiah 48:17 that G-d addressed the Jewish people and said “I am G-d Your teacher.” This means that G-d transmitted the depth and breadth of His Bible to the Jews alone and not to the Gentiles. This means the experts of the Bible was, is, and will always be the Jews. Without the Jews the world would not even be aware of the existence of G-d and certainly not G-d’s commandments. So based on this verse your statement that you rely on G-d for your enlightenment in understanding Biblical verses contradicts what the verse in Isaiah is teaching. In addition, at the end of the five books of Moses G-d says, “The Bible I commanded to Moses it is a heritage to the congregation of Jacob.” This verse also conveys the message that the Bible is the heritage of the Jews not the Gentiles. There are many verses which convey this thought in many different ways throughout the Bible. So if you rely on G-d then follow His teachings and defer to the Jewish teachings and explanations of the Bible as G-d Himself has stated many times throughout the Bible. This is an open contradiction to what you have said. Your statements just don’t hold water.
      Thank You.

      Yisroel HaKohen.

    • 30 Greg // Aug 27, 2010 at 10:34 am

      It never ceases to amaze me the intimacy and love of God. This morning after stopping by to check the thread to see if there was any update and reading portions of Yisroel’s comments. The Lord directed me to Psalm 52 and it spoke right to them both… with the Lord comforting me at the end.

      I looked up Isaiah 48:11… Didn’t say what you said…

      Also, through Jeremiah He said, “How can you say, ‘We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us’? Look, the false pen of the scribe certainly works falsehood. ” (Jer. 8:8)

    • 31 editor,DACON9 // Aug 27, 2010 at 2:29 pm

      GREG, I AM NOT AMAZED BY YOU.
      YOU ARE A XTIAN,
      I EXPECT NOTHING MORE FROM YOU.
      THERE ARE MORE COMMENTS COMING TO YOU
      MANY AFTER SEEING YOUR RESPONSE TO R’ YISROEL HAKOHAINE
      DEEMED YOU NOT WORTHY OF THEIR TIME.
      STAY TUNED XTIAN…FOR A XTIAN COMMENT
      EVEN XTIANS ARE AGAINST YOU.

      I RECOMMEND THERAPY, SERIOUSLY.
      or if you are an example of xtian jese freaks,
      you need to flush the toilet more often,
      you stained the toilet bowl with your garbage

    • 32 Yisroel HaKohen // Aug 28, 2010 at 10:36 pm

      Yisroel HaKohen

      The following are verses mentioned by the holy prophet Isaiah and their commentaries in order to give encouragement to the Jewish people.

      Chapter 49:

      Verse 3: “He (G-d) told me (Isaiah), You are My servant, Israel, in whom I take pride”.

      Commentary

      “He told Me” Isaiah earned the title of “servant” after intense spiritual efforts.

      Israel, in whom I take pride This verse means each and every Jew are a source of pride to G-d as a result of their good deeds and prayers.

      Verse 6: “He (G-d) said “Is it too little for you to be My servant, Israel to establish the tribes of Jacob and to return the besieged of Israel? I will make you a light to the nations, so that My salvation reaches the ends of the earth.”

      Commentary

      “Is it too little for you” G-d tells Isaiah not to think he has toiled in vain because the Jews did not accept his rebukes. It should suffice the prophet that he is G-d’s messenger. Immediate results are not important. To establish Isaiah’s mission is so important even though the Jews do not return to G-d in Isaiah’s time, the Jews ultimately will return to G-d in the future as the verse in Ezekiel 11:19 states, “I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh.” The besieged of Israel The Jews are besieged with doubts and attractions to the material world. I will make you a light unto the nations The Torah is mainly intended for the Jewish people, and to those who convert. Nonetheless, indirectly, it is also intended to influence all the nations, by their acknowledgement of the Jewish People’s greatness. Isaiah, has yet another role, that of arousing the nations to a better life. In general, the prophets have had more influence on the nations than the Torah. The Torah is connected with the practical commandments, whereas the prophets are mainly connected with moral issues, to which the nations relate more easily. My salvation reaches the ends of the earth The message of the Torah that was given to the Jews, is the message that will bring the world to its rectification.

      Verse 15: “But can a woman forget her baby, or forget to have mercy on her offspring? These too will forget, but I will not forget you.”

      Commentary

      “Can a woman forget” A mother sometimes is forced to abandon her child for a short time, but even then, she does not forget it. These too will forget Under certain conditions, even a mother may forget her child, especially if a long time has passed.
      I will not forget you This is G-d’s promise to the Jews. Even at the direst times, the Jews are not forgotten by G-d, but is only intentionally left in that situation of isolation for G-d’s reasons.

    • 33 Yisroel HaKohen revised fourth response to Greg // Aug 28, 2010 at 11:30 pm

      Important Note to David: I made a mistake in the first “Fourth response to Greg” please delete it and use this second revised “Fourth response Greg instead. Thank You

      Fourth Response to Greg from Yisroel HaKohen:

      Greg this time your translation of Jeremiah 8:8 is partially correct. The first part of your translation of the verse is correct however, your translation of the second part of the verse is wrong. In addition, your understanding of the verse is off. The Jewish commentators say that this verse refers to Jeremiah rebuking the people of his generation in that they knew their Bible very well however they failed to keep the commandments properly. Therefore, Jeremiah says, “How do you say, “We are wise, and the law of G-d is with us?” Certainly in vain he who has made the pen, the (writing of Torah) of the scribes are in vain.” In other words Jeremiah says that knowledge of the law is not enough, the commandments of G-d must be fulfilled. Therefore, Jeremiah said to the wise Jews, if you know the Bible well but do not practice its’ commandments properly the scribe who has written the scroll of the law has written it in vain. The verse is not saying, as you have implied Greg, that the wise Jews have no wisdom or knowledge of the Bible. Again, Greg, your comment demonstrates you do not have the proper understanding the Bible.

    • 34 Greg // Aug 28, 2010 at 11:41 pm

      As I’ve said before, I’m glad I keep copies.

    • 35 p. pie // Aug 29, 2010 at 1:02 am

      Greg,

      I confess I was a bit perturbed after reading your post, so I decided to wait and ponder before writing. As a Christian, I grappled with “turning the other cheek” to you; however, I believe that turning the other cheek is wrong when it means standing by and letting a wrong go unchallenged.

      I am concerned that you are using Bible verses not to elucidate and enlighten, but instead as weapons to win arguments, to condemn others and show them that they are wrong and that you are right. Do you worry that perhaps this will cause people to perceive you as arrogant and that instead of causing them to be receptive to you, they will instead shut down and not even listen?

      Yisroel asked whether a person would trust his interpretation or yours of a verse in Psalms. I would trust Yisroel over you. What he said seems to me to be informed by thoughtful exploration and scholarship, whereas I see you using Bible verses to bolster yourself.

      Regarding whether or not you are a Christian, you asked if this web site were a bookstore, would you need to yell your affiliation upon entering. The analogy is not a good one. This web site is not a bookstore or a retail establishment of any sort. It is a web site where Jewish issues are discussed, a web site where Jewish identity is fiercely protected.

      One reason why I think you should be up front about your religious affiliation is that I sense that your questions are sort of “trick” questions where you are trying to ensnare Dacon9 in a discussion in order to shake his beliefs and make him see things your way. (Much the way as Jehovah’s Witnesses do when they come to my front door. But at least I know they are Jehovah’s Witnesses. You are more cryptic. )

      The problem with not being honest about who you are is that assuming you got someone to say, “Hey, maybe that Greg guy is right and I need to question some things about my faith that I’ve always believed,” and then if that person later found out that you were actually a Chr-istian, they would see you as a deceiver and all headway you may have gained would be lost.

      If you feel a very strong calling from G-d to tell people about Gospel, it’s not my place to tell you to be silent. But I do want to let you know why I do not proselytize to Jews and why the very idea makes me very uncomfortable.

      Because of past history, Christians pretty much have no credibility if we try to tell Jews to believe the way we do. Just look at the horrible history of Christian persecution of Jews. The Holocaust didn’t occur in a vacuum. There were centuries and centuries of violence and persecution and hate directed at Jews, much of it by those who professed themselves to be Christians.

      I liken it to the way I feel about Islam. When Muslims tell me their religion means peace and love, I don’t believe them. I see the way many Muslims behave in this world, the way they scream “Death” to this and that, and therefore I am not at all receptive to anything to do with Islam. It falls on deaf ears. The way I view Islam is how many Jews see Christianity as well. It isn’t the fault of Jews that they have a low opinion of Christians — it is OUR fault as Christians.

      What I see time and time again are Christians who say they care about Jews, but instead their real focus seems to be on converting them. When their arguments don’t work, the formerly “nice” Christian suddenly sputters in anger and walks away in disgust, again setting a poor example.

      Because of past history, I feel that Christians should be focusing on cleaning up the shame that we, through our actions, have heaped upon the name of J-esus. A start would be to give Jews our true love and support and protection where we don’t expect anything back, where it is unconditional, where it exists even when we are not received with open arms. After all, we need to always be mindful as to why we are not received with open arms.

      When we try to convert Jews, it causes very hard feelings and makes the rift between our two faiths to become even deeper. Think how insulting it would be to have to listen to someone who doesn’t even understand your beliefs trying to tell you that you are wrong. To Jews, we Chr-istians have interpreted scripture incorrectly, we have changed and twisted things out of ignorance, and we don’t understand the cultural context of many of the things in the Bible.

      We should approach Jews with a spirit of humility and respect. They came first. God chose THEM. Christians have not replaced Jews as the apple of G-d’s eye. In the book of Romans, Paul talks about how Judaism is the root and gentiles are but branches, and that the branches must not boast against the root.

      Yisroel was so right when he said the following: “Without the Jews the world would not even be aware of the existence of G-d and certainly not G-d’s commandments.” We owe such a debt of gratitude!

      Greg, I have said all of the above to you using the assumption that you are a Christian.

      And one other thing I wanted to clear up is that in one of your posts you said that I must not be a Christian because of my actions. I’m not sure what actions you mean, but I do want to correct you because I am very much a Christian. Though my actions are frequently and regrettably unChristlike, though I am a flesh-and-blood woman who is far from perfect, it is my faith that makes me a Christian, not any pronouncement pro or con by you.

    • 36 History from Yisroel HaKohen // Aug 29, 2010 at 12:37 pm

      Yisroel HaKohen – More on Jewish – Christian History

      This is the second installment of the continuing saga of the historical documentation of the crimes committed against the Jewish People which was practiced throughout the ages and was culminated by the Holocaust:

      Hitler didn’t introduce anything new in his treatment of the Jews as many uninformed Christians would like to believe. Hitler only continued the centuries old practices he learned from the church, but on a grander and larger scale. The following are some examples:

      In the year 1848: The revolution in Austria served as a cover for mob attacks on Jewish property in Presburg and Pest. The synagogue in Steinamanger was vandalized and sacred scrolls of the Torah were torn and thrown into the river.
      In April during the revolution, the gates of the Roman ghetto were torn down and the Jews were liberated. The liberation was short lived, because Pope Pius IX together with the Austrians in their reconquest of Hungry assessed the Hungarian Jewish community 2,300,000 florins in damages for the revolution that they did not participate in.
      Czar Nicholas I abolished forced state Jewish schools because the purpose of conversion of the Jews was not being achieved. At the same time the Czar issued a ukase (an edict) forbidding any form of Jewish dress and ritual adornment which was the customary dress of the Russian Jew – the long, black coat (caftan) was banned and the side curls (payot) were cut off from many Jews by bands of police armed with scissors. During World War II the Nazis did the same thing.
      In New York City, a rumor of ritual murder brought together a crowd of 500 led by three Irish policemen who broke into a synagogue, beat the congregation and wrecked the building.

      In the year 1851: The revised constitution of Prussia, Germany and Austria included anti-Semitic provisions that effectively undid the steps toward the emancipation of Jews that were part of the goals of those Gentiles who participated in the 1848 revolutions.

      In the year 1855: The author, Comte de Gobineau published his Essai sur l’in’eqalite’ des Races humaines (Essay on Inequality) which held that human races were unequal, the Nordic race being most superior. Modern anti-Semitism drew heavily from this racist thesis.
      Mobs of townspeople attacked the Jewish community in Odessa.

      Erenst Renan, a well known linguist, in his study of Semitic languages states that “science and philosophy were almost foreign to the Semites (the Jews)” and “the Semetic race, as compared to the Indo-European race. He declared that the Semitic race (the Jews) is an inferior race.”
      A ritual murder trial was conducted in the Russian town of Saratov.

      In the year 1858: The Edward Mortara incident occurred in the Papal States in Italy. In 1852 a Christian servant unknown to the parents had baptized the infant Edward Mortara during an illness. When priests learned of this, a military detachment was sent to the Mortara household to take the child from his parents to be raised as a Catholic. The wide spread outcry against this action throughout Europe and the United States had no effect on the Pope who threatened the leaders of the Jewish community with retaliatory action.
      Romania declared Jews to be native aliens. This meant the Jews were denied the right of Romanian citizenship and they were not able to appeal to the protection of any foreign power.

      In the year 1862: During the Civil war in America, the following order was issued by Ulysses S. Grant the commanding general of all Union forces in the west.

      “General Orders Number 11”

      The Jews as a class violating every regulation of trade established by the U.S. Treasury Department and also the orders of the department of the western Union Forces, the Jews are hereby expelled from the department of the west occupied by Union forces within 24 hours from the receipt of this order.
      All post military commanders will see that all of this class of people be furnished passes and be required to leave the military western area controlled by Union Forces, and anyone returning after such notification will be arrested and held in confinement under arrest until such notification occurs of sending them out as prisoners, unless furnished with permit from military headquarters.
      No passes will be given these people to visit military headquarters for the purpose of making personal applications for trade permits,
      By order of Major-General U. S. Grant.
      Jno. A. Rawlings,
      Assistant Adjutant-General”

      In the year 1866: In the city of Galatz, Romania, city officials designated certain Jews as vagabonds and forced them into a boat for delivery to Turkey across the Danube River. The Turks sent them back. They were ferried back and forth many times until the Romanians ordered “out with the Jews into the heathen land of the Turks – or else throw them into the river!” The Turks sent the Jews back again and they were thrown into the river. The Turks rescued them but not before two had drowned.
      In Bucharest a mob gathered to prevent the granting of equal rights to the Jews. Synagogues and sacred writings were desecrated and destroyed.

      In the year 1867: In Romania, a law was passed forbidding Jews to live in villages or to own inns or taverns.

      In the year 1868: The author, Hermann Goedsche under the pseudonym Sir John Ratcliffe published the novel Biarritz. In the book he described how there was a secret midnight meeting in the Prague Jewish Cemetery of representatives of the 12 tribes of Israel who received directions from the devil for the Jewish domination of the world. Such meetings occurred ostensibly every 100 years.

      In the year 1869: In Germany, the final emancipation law passed giving the Jews equal citizenship status.

      In the year 1870: Despite the opposition of Pope Pius IX, the Roman ghetto was formally and finally abolished and the Jews were granted equal rights in the kingdom of Italy.

      In the year 1871: The vicious anti-Semitic pamphlet Der Talmuddjude (The Talmud Jew) written by Father August Rohling of Prague, one of the founders of modern anti-Semitism, was published. It was widely reprinted and circulated in the Catholic press.
      Again, the Jewish community of Odessa was attacked by a mob of townspeople.

      In the year 1872: In order to divert attention from the anti-clerical and anti-church sentiment of the period, Pope Pius IX made a series of anti-Jewish pronouncements. In the Catholic countries the response to the Pope’s actions was widespread attacks against the Jews. In France, Jews holding government offices were dismissed. In Italy, there was widespread demand that the Jews be disenfranchised from their rights and property. The Catholic press throughout Europe carried on concerted attacks against the Jews that riled up the people throughout Europe against the Jews.

      In the year 1873: The term “anti-Semite” was first used. It was coined by Wilhelm Marr. It marked a shift in focus of anti-Jewish thinking. It said that the Christians do not hate the Jews because of their religion but because of their race and ideology. Marr’s pamphlet Der Sieg des Judentums uber das Germanenentum (Jewry’s Victory over Teutonism (the Germans)) was published and set forth the major points of modern anti-Semitism. The pamphlet did not attack Judaism at all, for he declared that it was idiotic to blame the Jews for the crucifixion. Marr committed himself to the unconditional defense of the Jews against all religious persecution.
      In fact, Marr saw the Jews as highly gifted and talented, a tough people with endurance and resilience. Their economic function was forced upon them by the Church, legal restrictions, and their desire to survive. However, Marr saw the German state as judaized. Marr felt that the Jews had corrupted all standards, destroyed idealism; dominated commerce, the state services, the theater and the press. He cautioned against hating individual Jews. They were a racial group that could not change or be changed. To live with them on equal footing, however, was impossible because of their superior qualities.

    • 37 Thank You Letter to P. Pie from Yisroel HaKohen // Aug 29, 2010 at 12:51 pm

      A letter of thanks to Pumpkin Pie from Yisroel HaKohen:

      I would like to take this opportunity to personally thank Pumpkin Pie for her open letter. Your last response to Greg expressed so beautifully and eloquently the reason for the strained relations between the Jews and Christians. I applaud you for your courage and honesty and for so beautifully describing the Jewish-Christian relationship and situation that has existed for the last 2,000 years. It was the most honest soul-searching declaration I have ever read from a Christian and I respect you highly for what you have written. May you be blessed and have a life of happiness for your open-minded attitude and philosophy of facing the truth which is often hard to do. Again, I thank you for your very great essay and I plan to save what you wrote as an inspiration to us all.

      Thank You

    • 38 Yisroel HaKohen thanks P. Pie // Aug 29, 2010 at 12:52 pm

      A letter of thanks to Pumpkin Pie from Yisroel HaKohen:

      I would like to take this opportunity to personally thank Pumpkin Pie for her open letter. Your last response to Greg expressed so beautifully and eloquently the reason for the strained relations between the Jews and Christians. I applaud you for your courage and honesty and for so beautifully describing the Jewish-Christian relationship and situation that has existed for the last 2,000 years. It was the most honest soul-searching declaration I have ever read from a Christian and I respect you highly for what you have written. May you be blessed and have a life of happiness for your open-minded attitude and philosophy of facing the truth which is often hard to do. Again, I thank you for your very great essay and I plan to save what you wrote as an inspiration to us all.

      Thank You

    • 39 Greg // Aug 29, 2010 at 5:55 pm

      Yisroel,

      If David could alter your reference to Isaiah and accuse me of having dyslexia because of his cover-up, couldn’t the lying pen of the scribes also corrupt the commands of God for their own purpose? Because the thing is, when you look at the verses surrounding Jeremiah 8:8, it’s clear that God wasn’t rebuking them for ‘knowing but not doing’, He was rebuking them for corrupting the Law and healing the people superficially, not repenting, not turning back from their wickedness, but instead altering the word of God to permit what He’d condemned.

      “Therefore I will give their wives to others, And their fields to those who will inherit them; Because from the least even to the greatest Everyone is given to covetousness; From the prophet even to the priest Everyone deals falsely. ”

      P.Pie… Sorry, but it was God who warned me about you, so you’ll need to take your defense to Him.

      And David, you really should read through Jeremiah 9:6 because through deceit you refuse to know God.

      Try practicing Zech 8:16,17 and Micah 6:8

    • 40 editor,DACON9 // Aug 29, 2010 at 6:30 pm

      GREGORY what scary music that gregorian chant. and if played on the giant organ its even more scary,,like vampires gonna jump at ya.

      GREG YOU LOW LIFE PIECE OF TRASH.
      people treat you with respect.
      I treat you like maggots on a carcass.
      correction. I would treat you like the carcass…burn you into oblivion.
      but then I would be acting like a xtian.

      you arent worth any civility
      copy that Mr. Zerox

      dyslexia…and I spelled it right without looking it up. Rabbi Yisroel asked me to fix his typo… but I love to play with your brain.
      I love your responses.
      by the way, you do have dsylexia,
      you as the patient is not aware of your malady…..

      I once asked you and you never answered any of my questions , just to remind the readers….
      Do you have the job of polishing jesues crotch before your sunday mass. I think you do…
      com’on…tell us the truth buddy.
      I suggest you read spiderman. he spun this web swinging from a tall building and crashed right into the 5th floor window. they were supposed to open it,but like all xtians, they never do what they’re told.

      WELL I GUESS YOURE NOT GONNA REPENT EVEN THOUGH JUDGEMENT DAY IS HERE IN A FEW WEEKS..YES EVEN FOR YOU NON JEWS EVEN THE WACKY…

      greg ever since they made generic prozac, you have never been the same.Please go back to the original medication, no substitutions..ok?

      your point of correcting an error that was requested by the writer is admirable by the writer…but as usual you xtians gotta stick to your non issue agenda because you have no substance to anything remotely connected to rational thought

    • 41 Greg // Aug 29, 2010 at 7:31 pm

      “Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death, Is the man who deceives his neighbor, And says, “I was only joking!”

    • 42 editor,DACON9 // Aug 29, 2010 at 8:08 pm

      like a xtian who says with his knife at your throat
      ”JESEUS LOVES YOU,
      CONVERT NOW JEW OR DIE BECAUSE JESES LOVES YOU DAMIT”

      LISTEN UP greg.
      take 2 generic prozac
      or 1 authentic patented prozac.
      do not drink or take drugs while under this medication.

      remember to check with your therapist
      when you get strange feelings
      when you hear gods talking to you is a sure sign that you need to call your therapist as soon as possible.

    • 43 Yisroel HaKohen // Aug 29, 2010 at 9:55 pm

      Yisroel HaKohen has had enough of this Dreg!

      Dacon, it is obvious that we must get off this merry-go-round with Greg. His circular logic is just a waste of time. Greg is a Dreg and it is time to completely ignore and disregard his comments to the trash-heap of insanity. Please do not post anymore of Greg’s junk and let us move on with more important subjects such as teaching the words of Hashem to those who would benefit from them.
      Thank You Dacon for your great patience and ability to present the truth of G-d and and His people in very difficult circumstances such as dealing with Dregs of the earth.
      Thank You Dacon!

    • 44 editor,DACON9 // Aug 30, 2010 at 5:55 am

      TO CLOSE THIS OFF
      ALL THIS LIBERALISM AND DEMOCRACATIC SOCIALISM LEADS TO THE DEATH OF WHAT IS GOOD AND PROPER

      A LOT OF RESPECT WAS GIVEN TO greg BY R’ YISROEL HAKOHANE AND P.PIE

      MY LESSON TO REPEAT IS…
      A MISSIONARY OR JESES FREAK IS TO
      NOT LISTEN TO REASON, LOGIC,FACTS NOT EVEN HISTORICAL FACTS

      THEY REPEAT A MANTRA OVER AND OVER SO THEY THEMSELFS DONT FORGET THE LIE.

      JEWS ARE NOT TO BE KIND TO MISSIONARIES, NOT LISTEN TO THEM,
      NOT TO DUEL VERBALLY.

      IT SAYS IT IN TORAH DEUT:
      AND THE RAMBAM MAIMONIDES SAID
      DO NOT GIVE CREDIBILTY TO THEM BY ARGUING WITH THEM, THE XTIANS.

      GREG IS PURE FILTH
      IF THIS IS CRUEL TO SAY THEN YOU NEED A COURSE IN TORAH BECAUSE
      JEWS
      ARE OBLIGATED TO WARN OTHERS
      OF THE DANGERS OF MISSIONARY TRASH.
      ”DO NOT BE KIND TO MISSIONARIES”
      YOU HAVE SEEN HIS REFUSAL TO ANSWER
      YOU HAVE SEEN HIS CLAIMS OF HEARING GD TALK TO HIM
      I DID NOT POST HIS LAST MESSAGE OF HIS PRAISING SOMETHING FORIEGN TO JUDAISM.
      IT IS NOT DIFFICULT TO JUDGE XTIANITY OR MISSIONARIES WHO DISGUISE XTIANITY WITH A FEW WORDS OF TORAH SO YOU LET YOUR GUARDS DOWN AND YOU LISTEN TO THE TRASH.

      GD IS TESTING **YOU** WITH THIS DEVIL.
      If you want spiritual excitment and orthodox TORAH RABBI can provide that…
      after all JUDASM IS THE FOUNDATION OF EVEN THE FALSE RELIGIONS LIKE XTIANS AND MOHAMEDS.

      THIS IS THE PERIOD OF TIME THAT WE SHOULD STEP CLOSER TO THE ONE GD OF ISRAEL……..
      READ MY FIRST ARTICLE ON TOP ”’MECHILA”’

      GOOD HEALTHY YEAR WITH A STEP CLOSER TO SERVING HASHEM HOW ”HE” ASKED US, NOT HOW XTIANS WANT US.

    • 45 Greg // Aug 30, 2010 at 9:36 am

      Just had to ask:

      “A MISSIONARY OR JESES FREAK IS TO NOT LISTEN TO REASON, LOGIC,FACTS NOT EVEN HISTORICAL FACTS”

      Then you’re a missionary? Because you have fit this to a T.

      “JEWS ARE NOT TO BE KIND TO MISSIONARIES, NOT LISTEN TO THEM, NOT TO DUEL VERBALLY.”

      Then you’ve violated this not only here and now, but with the missionary and his three friends. So again, you violate the very thing what you profess.

      “I DID NOT POST HIS LAST MESSAGE OF HIS PRAISING SOMETHING FORIEGN TO JUDAISM.”

      Something foreign… it was Ps 117. It may be foreign to you as you probably never read the Bible. So why not post it and let everyone see? Because you don’t know God and have never heard His voice…. and that is what is truly sad.

      “GOOD HEALTHY YEAR WITH A STEP CLOSER TO SERVING HASHEM HOW ”HE” ASKED US, NOT HOW XTIANS WANT US.”

      Again, try reading the passage from Zech and Micah I posted earlier and then go from there.

      You probably won’t have the courage to post this either, but, sadly, that’s come to be expected.

    • 46 p. pie // Aug 30, 2010 at 11:35 am

      R’ Yisroel,

      What you wrote is so meaningful to me and brought tears to my eyes. Thank you so very much. And it is I who thank you, and thank you so much for your blessings.

      I am very sorry for all the harm that Christians have done to Jews. It haunts me.

      P.Pie

    • 47 Yisroel HaKohen // Sep 6, 2010 at 2:00 pm

      Several Brief Comments Concerning Repentance from the Talmud

      From Rabbi Yisroel HaKohen:

      The following teachings are to encourage all people to repent as is required by Jewish law, especially during the period of the ten days of repentance spanning from Rosh Hashana (the Jewish New Year) until Yom Kippor (the fast day of atonement). Ideally, one should do repentance daily before one retires at night before one goes to sleep.

      “Any man who confesses his sins (before G-d) has a share in the World to Come”

      The Talmud informs us that there isn’t any sin that cannot be atoned for through repentance! To illustrate this point the Talmud (Gitten 57b) tells us about an incredible story of how far reaching this Talmudic statement of repentance goes:

      The Talmud tells us, Rebbe Chiya bar Avin said in the name of Rebbe Yehashua bar Korcha one of the elders who was a citizen of Jerusalem told me that in that valley Nevuzaradan, the chief general (of the Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar who destroyed the first Temple in approximately the year 336 B.C.E.) executed 2,110,000 Jews on one stone until their blood flowed and mingled with the blood of the Prophet Zecharia (son of Yehoyada the priest who was murdered by the wicked Jewish King Joash mentioned in 2 Chronicles 24:22). … Nevuzaradan noticed that the blood of Zechariah was boiling and seething (by a stone in the valley, despite the passage of many years since his murder) and Nevuzaradan asked, “What is this blood? … (After trying to give false answers to conceal the nature of this boiling blood the Jews were finally forced to tell Nevuzaradan the truth about this blood) The Jews confessed to Nevuzaradan and said, “(In the past) we had a prophet among us who would rebuke us (about not worshiping idols. We couldn’t tolerate his rebukes so) we rose up and killed him. Many years have passed, yet his blood has not come to rest (and continues to boil demanding retribution).”
      Nevuzaradan said to the Jews, “I will appease him. Nevuzaradan brought the great Sanhedrin (the Supreme Court consisting of 71 of the greatest sages of Israel) and killed them (over Zechariah’s boiling blood) to appease him, but the blood did not rest. Nevuzaradan then slaughtered the small Sanhedrin (the lower court, consisting of 23 great sages), then he slaughtered the young Jewish men and women, then he slaughtered the young (pure and sin-free) Jewish school children, but the blood still did not rest. Nevuzaradan then shouted, Zechariah! Zechariah! I have killed the best of the Jewish people (to appease you and bring atonement to the Jews for your murder). Do you want me to kill them all!? When Nevuzaradanhad had finished saying this, the blood came to a rest (and his blood stopped bubbling). At that moment Nevuzaradan had thoughts of repentance. He said to himself: If the Jews were punished so severely for killing one person, I who murdered so many people (2,110,000 Jews), how much infinitely greater will be my punishment? So Nevuzaradan ran away (from the Babylonian Army), disposed of his property, and converted to Judaism (and did a complete repentance which was accepted by G-d).

      Think about the catastrophic magnitude of this sin! Nevuzaradan destroyed G-d’s holy first Temple (the first Temple was much holier than the second temple), he destroyed the entire land of Israel and everything in it, murdered over 2,110,000 Jews on one stone, exiled the Jews throughout the world, and he worshiped idols. Despite these incredible sins committed by Nevuzaradan, which almost has no equal in their enormity and severity in the history of the world, yet Nevuzaradan was still able to repent for these crimes and G-d accepted his repentance. This mind-boggling true story is such a powerful lesson which must be ingrained within us all! This incredible incident clearly illustrates, as was mentioned above, what the Talmud teaches, “There isn’t any sin that cannot be atoned for through repentance!” This includes the worst possible sins such as what Nevuzaradan had committed. So we should all take heart and courage from this teaching and not despair! No matter how bad the sins we have committed are, we can surely take solace from this teaching and we can repent for any sin we have committed no matter how heinous and terrible, as Nevuzaradan did in his time.

      More from the Talmud on repentance:

      Rebbe Yehoshua ben Levi said: Whoever is able to overcome their evil impulses and confess his past sins the verse teaches us that he is considered to have given honor to G–d, both in this world and the World to Come, as it says, “He who offers [his evil impulse and] makes confession honors Me (G-d) (psalms 50:23) [The unusual double Hebrew letter “nun” in the word honors refers to this world and the next.]

      Rebbe Yehoshua ben Levi also said: When the Temple was standing, if a person brought a burnt offering, he was given reward for bringing a burnt offering; if a person brought a meal offering, he was given reward for bringing a meal offering; but if someone humbles himself (before G-d), the verse considers it as if he had brought all of the sacrifices, for it says “The sacrifices G-d desires are a broken spirit” (Psalms 51:19) In addition to this, his prayers are never rejected, for it says, “A broken and humbled heart, G-d, You will not despise.” (Psalms 51:19)

      [The reader is asked to please read the following explanation to better understand this teaching of the Talmud and better understand the concept of sacrifices to gain atonement.]

      [Note: During Temple times the Torah required that every repentant sinner would be required to offer a sacrifice in the Temple. Before the animal was offered, the man would discuss his sins with the righteous priests who would later offer his sacrifice. The priests would first give him guidance on how to repent and they would inspire him to humble himself so he would feel complete remorse and they would also teach him how to change his ways. Concerning the animal that was to be sacrificed, that animal would be considered to be a substitute for the sinner himself. In actuality, it is the sinner himself who really should have been burnt on the fire of the altar to rectify his misdeeds rather than the animal. G-d in His mercy allowed the animal to take the place of the sinner to indicate to us that the act of a sin is actually animalistic behavior. The sinner has fallen to the level of an animal, because just as animals, whom are known to live only to fulfill their lusts and desires and are devoid of morality and the desire to sanctify their lives, so too the sinner has actually fallen to the spiritual, intellectual, and emotional level of an animal and has actually become an animal on the spiritual level in the eyes of G-d. How can this former man, who has fallen to the spiritual, intellectual, and emotional level of an animal, through his sin return to his proper place – the level of a human being – and regain his status? The Torah gives us the answer. The Torah tells us that by offering an animal sacrifice – which means to destroy the animal aspect within his soul and character which he has created within himself through his sinful animal behavior, he can readily rectify himself and regain his spiritual and emotional status as a human being again. It is as if to say, “Let an animal come and atone for the man who has acted like an animal through his sinful behavior.”
      After the priests finished counseling the sinner, the animal would then be slaughtered and its blood sprinkled upon the altar. When the sinner looked upon the slaughtered and burning animal, disemboweled, with its guts hanging out and its blood dripping upon the altar, he would come to realize that he himself was actually no better and no different than this animal lying before him, and that he himself should have been placed upon the altar instead of the sizzling burning sacrificial animal lying upon the fire. This entire scene would often humble the sinner and inspire him to do true repentance in his heart.
      Without true remorse and without a heartfelt repentance by the sinner, the sacrifice would be considered worthless and the sinner would not be forgiven. Thus, the sacrifices were like visual and emotional aids to help sinners truly repent. However, in our times, we no longer have the benefit of the guidance of the holy Temple priests and the sacrifices to help us reach a heightened state of humility needed to feel remorse over our sins and truly repent. Without the help of a Temple is all lost? How could we ever hope to do true repentance? Therefore, the Talmud gives us encouragement and tells us that even without a Temple one can accomplish the same state of remorse as when the Temple stood and one is still able to fully repent of all of his sins. How? One must first think so deeply about his sins so that he sincerely comes to regret what he has done. If a man accomplishes this state of remorse through his contemplation, then his repentance can be considered even greater than bringing a sin offering at the Temple. Because not every sin offering, brought at the Temple was brought with sincere motives, which was to do true repentance. If this was the case, and true remorse did not accompany the sacrifice, then such a sacrifice would not bring about atonement and the sinner would not be forgiven. Then the atonement ceremony at the Temple would actually be disadvantageous to such sinners, for they would erroneously think that the sacrifice alone was enough to gain atonement for them without the need for true remorse. Thus, this situation of bringing an insincere sacrifice would actually cause them to lose their opportunity to really rectify their sins and gain atonement. They then would erroneously feel that their sins were erased and would then never truly address this sin again and thus never gain any repentance whatsoever for this sin. For such sinners, it would have been better for them not to have a Temple, so that they would certainly come to realize that it is actually true remorse which accompanied the sacrifice which was the main ingredient in affecting atonement, and not the insincere sacrifice alone. However, today, the advantage to not having the benefit of a Temple is that every sinner knows that the only way to gain atonement is trough sincere remorse because there are no sacrifices to rely on today. Therefore, a truly remorseful and devastated penitent could accomplish more through his heartfelt repentance than an insincere penitent who offered a sacrifice at the Temple.
      So what is the qualitative difference between today’s repentance and that of the repentance done through a sacrifice offered at the Temple? The difference between the Temple times and our times is that the holy environment of the Temple, was filled with G-d’s Divine Presence, the holy priests, and the holy objects dedicated to the service of G-d which created the ideal atmosphere to inspire one to sincerely repent. In addition, as mentioned above, when the sinner gazed upon the burning sacrifice, it would humble the sinner and help him become remorseful, thus inspiring him to do a sincere repentance. Thus, the sacrifices and the other mechanisms that were once in place in the Temple would greatly enhance repentance and it would make it relatively easily to inspire the sinner to feel remorse and to reach a true sincere repentance. However, today, without the Temple, we do not have these mechanisms in place which would have made it much easier for the sinner to become inspired to do true and remorseful repentance. Today it is much more difficult to reach the necessary level of remorse as compared with Temple times. Although today, we do not have the benefit of the Temple to help the sinner easily reach the proper frame of mind and level of repentance. The Talmud informs us not to despair, because today, even without the help of a Temple, although it is much more difficult to achieve the proper level of remorse to attain forgiveness over one’s sins, despite this situation it is still yet possible to achieve the proper level of remorse, but today a greater amount of effort and determination is required than it was in the past when sacrifices were offered in the Temple. Please Note: During Temple times the Torah required that in addition to remorse over one’s sins a sinner was required to bring the appropriate sacrifice. Remorse during Temple times would not affect complete atonement without a sacrifice. The sacrifice, in addition to one’s remorse would propel one’s repentance to the highest spiritual realms and accomplish a complete rectification of the damage caused by one’s sins. However, today, without a Temple, we are now exempt from having to bring sacrifices. Therefore, because of today’s situation, G-d now considers true remorse as if one had brought a sacrifice and thus true remorse can actually fully rectify any sin as if one had brought a sacrifice to the very Temple itself. May we all merit true atonement and the rebuilding of the Temple speedily in our days Amen!

    • 48 Motti // Sep 7, 2010 at 8:45 am

      HOW OFFENSIVE IS THIS PARAGRAPH FROM GREG?
      PEOPLE WHO HATE JEWS TALK LIKE HOW GREG REFERS TO THINGS BOTTOM LINE.
      GREG REPLIES:

      ” Therefore the later Rabbis can only interprete what the earlier Rabbis say because they lack the wisdom, the depth and the spiritual insight to fully understand the Torah properly as compared with the earlier Rabbis. The Talmud says as each generation passes we get spiritually and intellectually weaker.”

      It is because they listen to the Talmud that they’ve become weaker, as it is written in the Psalms “I have more understanding than all my teachers, for Your testimonies are my meditation. I understand more than the ancients, because I keep Your precepts.”

      Who would you say is the equivalent of Nachman today?

      I CAN’T BELIEVE HOW DUMB THE LAST QUESTION IS.
      GREG STOP BEING A REFORM-A-TARD AND GET A GRIP.

    • 49 Greg // Sep 8, 2010 at 3:08 pm

      Motti,

      Yisroel said, “In every generation GD has gifted the Nation Of Israel with special unique Rabbis who is again universally recognizwed and accpeted as the wisest of thos generation for their talents in ability to understand and utilize properly Torah Law. ”

      So, considering what he previously said, it seems a logical question of who, in this generation, is the equivalent/stature of Nachman? (Moses Ben Nachman for David’s benefit).

      The thing that amazes me is that you bless the fat sheep who muddy the waters and yet forsake the one who would lead beside clear waters… but that too is found in Jeremiah (2:13)

    • 50 DACON9 // Sep 12, 2010 at 2:14 pm

      GREG REPLIES TO YOU ON THE BLOG
      I DONT THINK HE IS REFORM..I THINK HE IS XTIAN

      GOOD HEALTHY YEAR TO YOU TOO

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